Trevor Rabin: Musician, Songwriter, Film Score Composer

Trevor Rabin:

I have to say, well, the guitar was always something, even though I was a pianist and I played piano from five until forever. Guitar became the instrument of choice at I think I was 11 closing in on 12, and it just became something which I was absolutely addicted to.

Announcer:

Welcome to another edition of the Takin’ A Walk Podcast, an exploration into music with musicians and insiders with a story to tell. On this episode, join our host Buzz Knight as he speaks to Trevor Rabin. He’s a musician, a songwriter, a film composer, known for his work in Yes and numerous film scores like Con Air, Homegrown, Armageddon and many more, with the legendary Jerry Bruckheimer. Trevor has a new project called Rio, and he joins Buzz next on Takin’ A Walk.

Buzz Knight:

Trevor, nice to talk to you.

Trevor Rabin:

Good to talk to you. How are you doing?

Buzz Knight:

I’m great. We talked many moons ago when I was a baby DJ in Columbus, Ohio. You were out promoting a date with Yes then.

Trevor Rabin:

Oh, my goodness. That’s amazing.

Buzz Knight:

It was Shoot High Aim Low.

Trevor Rabin:

From the Big Generator record. That’s correct.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah. I asked you, I said, “On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate the ability to dance to that song,” and you said “Zero.”

Trevor Rabin:

I think that’s about right.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah. Well, congratulations on the release of Rio, your first solo album of vocals in 34 years. Have you been slacking off all this time?

Trevor Rabin:

I wish I’d been slacking off, but fortunately, I guess I should say, I got into film scoring once I left the band, and it just never stopped. From the first minute I started until quite recently, I’ve just been doing film after film. It’s funny. I look back on the 30-odd years from the last vocal solo album, and I think it doesn’t feel that long. I mean, one of my early movies was Armageddon, and I look back at Armageddon and it doesn’t feel that long ago. It feels like it could have been a week ago. Because of so much work that was going on, it all feels truncated, and suddenly I look in the mirror and I’m 30 years older. The great thing is, because I was doing something else, coming into doing this album, I really felt fresh because I hadn’t done it for so long.

Buzz Knight:

What got you into the film scoring? Tell me about that.

Trevor Rabin:

Well, I had an incredible teacher. I grew up in a musical family. My dad would joke I could read music before English, and I studied orchestration and arrangements and conducting and all that stuff with this brilliant guy, Professor Walter Mony. He was an unbelievable teacher, an inspiring teacher, and I was a terrible student, so it was clearly all his fault. After Yes, I really wanted to work with orchestra, and one of the best places to do it was doing film, and I was just very lucky enough to get into it. Within the third movie, I was doing … well, Jerry Bruckheimer’s movies, I think I did 13 of his. I look back at 50 movies ago, and that’s when I started, and here we are 30 years later. I certainly was slacking off with doing this album, but not doing music.

Buzz Knight:

What was the process of the whole film scoring? How long would it typically take for your work to be completed?

Trevor Rabin:

I would say generally, a film would be between two and a half and three months, full-time. I would get the film. You read the script, you see if you want to work together, and then you do. I get the film just as it’s finishing, nearing the final cut. That’s when I would get it, although I get earlier cuts, so that I could just inspire and write themes, even if it was just a three-note theme, and then I would write the full orchestra piece later. Then there’d be what’s called a spotting session, where the very first final cut … which the final cut never means the final cut … but I would sit with the director and the film editor and we would discuss where music is literally going to fall in the movie.

You’re talking about tiny increments. For example, say the first piece of music that comes into the film comes in at two hours, one minute and six frames. It means on the sixth frame is where the girl shuts her eyes. When you see the eyelid shut on frame eight, that’s where the music starts. That might just be a piano piece that goes for eight seconds. Then the next piece might be a seven-minute orchestral piece for a chase scene, which would have the kitchen sink on it. That would go for seven minutes, nine seconds and three frames, so it’s very specific. Then you’d get to like 60 pieces of music, and once those are all shoveled, you’ve done.

Buzz Knight:

What fueled your brilliant curiosity as a young lad in Johannesburg?

Trevor Rabin:

I have to say, well, the guitar was always something, even though I was a pianist and I played piano from five until forever, but guitar became the instrument of choice at I think I was 11 closing in on 12, and it just became something which I was absolutely addicted to. Then I think at about 17, 18, I became completely obsessed with … well, I was always, because of my father, who’s a first violinist in the Johannesburg Symphony Orchestra, there was classical music all the time in the family. I knew all the B’s, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms, and I’d keep hearing that all my life, but then I came across Arnold Schoenberg and he just blew me away, one of the great composers of the last century.

Buzz Knight:

We’ve had, on this podcast, some of your past mates from Yes, Steve Howe and Jon Anderson, and I was intrigued by their diversity of influences. Your influences are just as diverse and maybe even more diverse. How do you still keep it diverse?

Trevor Rabin:

Just by listening. I’d listen to a lot of music, and I listened to mostly classical music or great guitar players, but my son, who’s a phenomenal producer and was in a band called Grouplove … I don’t know if you remember them. They’re still going, actually. He left the band to be a producer, three years after three albums. He keeps me up to date on what’s happening in the music business, because it’s such a changed place. I don’t even recognize it mostly.

Buzz Knight:

Are you still friendly with the Yes camp?

Trevor Rabin:

You know, it’s so sad. Alan White and Chris, as you know, recently died, and I miss them so much. They were really, really close friends. Then obviously, have loved going on the road with Jon and Rick. Rick and I have always been close, and when time allows, him and I want to do an album just with piano and acoustic guitar, so we’re still in touch.

Buzz Knight:

Had you always been involved with the banjo and dobro and instruments like that? Because I know that’s part of Rio.

Trevor Rabin:

Yeah. It’s a funny thing about it, because when I was pretty much a teenager going into my twenties in South Africa, I was a session musician, working flat out, and the sessions would change from a movie session with a big orchestra to a heavy rock session or to a country session, and country music was huge in South Africa. Very often I’d be playing a banjo or mandolin, or even pedal steel on some sessions. Essentially, playing a Telecaster with a B-bender, which is pretty much a country-pickin’ thing, was a big love of mine and always has been.

Buzz Knight:

If you could play a dream session with individuals either living or deceased, who would that session be with?

Trevor Rabin:

Probably Union Station.

Buzz Knight:

Tell me about that.

Trevor Rabin:

God, what’s the name of … Union Station is with that country singer.

Buzz Knight:

Alison Krauss?

Trevor Rabin:

Alison Krauss and Union Station. I mean, just such great players in there. On dobro, Douglas is just phenomenal.

Buzz Knight:

Oh, is that Jerry Douglas?

Trevor Rabin:

Jerry Douglas, yes.

Buzz Knight:

Wow, that’s incredible. Isn’t it really neat how Mr. Plant has evolved into his present work?

Trevor Rabin:

Oh, I love Robert. I’ve known Robert for probably 40 years, and we’ve always been friends. I remember going to his show years ago and waiting backstage because they said he was changing, and a record company guy went in and said, “Robert, Trevor’s here,” and he said, “Oh, bring the bloody South African in.” He’s a funny old card.

Buzz Knight:

I want to ask you. Everybody talks about artificial intelligence now, and I’d like to get your perspective on it in terms of things you love about it relating to your music and things you fear of it.

Trevor Rabin:

Well, what I fear, you know, I’m 70 in three months, so I got through the business in probably one of the golden eras of the music business. The new music business I think scares me mostly for young musicians. I mean, young film composers don’t get treated as well as they used to. I’ve seen a lot of film composers doing movies for no money, and just saying you’re going to get it on your BMI check. Something’s got to happen. Listen, there’s been the writers’ strike and there’s been the actors’ strike. I think the musicians need to be looked after as well, especially the young ones coming up.

Buzz Knight:

Who are some of the producers that have influenced you?

Trevor Rabin:

I think you mean record producers.

Buzz Knight:

Yes.

Trevor Rabin:

Yes. I think there was a guy who just died in South Africa, a phenomenal producer called Julian Laxton, phenomenal producer. Then I’d say along with that would be Mutt Lang. I think he’s absolutely brilliant.

Buzz Knight:

Let’s talk about Rio, and then also talk about Oklahoma as well, which is striking. Tell me about how proud you are of this work.

Trevor Rabin:

I’m very, very proud of it. Oklahoma goes back a long time. I’d worked really hard to become an American citizen, and went through absolutely all of the legal ramifications and procedures to do so. Actually, we played in LA that night with Yes, and Rick draped me in an American flag and it was just such an exciting moment. Go a couple of years forward, and in ’95, the federal building gets blown up in Oklahoma and I had this sick feeling in my stomach, and it just led me to want to write a song about it, but I clearly didn’t want to release it or do anything right then and there. It would’ve been pretty crass and exploitive. Now, 30 years later, I can look at it and just look at it as a commentary and a tribute really.

Buzz Knight:

That’s amazing, and something for you, your work, to be certainly very proud of. Looking forward here, how do you just stay so energized around your work?

Trevor Rabin:

I have to say, when film is happening, there’s an inherent discipline that you have to have. Every day you’re faced with a blank page, and you have to fill it. Luckily you’re watching pictures, so it’s the ready-made video. It’s funny. The better the actor, the easier it is to write music to him. The rhythm of Denzel Washington or Anthony Hopkins makes writing music to dialogue much more fluid. I think as far as being inspired all the time, there are moments where I go through a month and I’ll be practicing and playing the guitar, but I’m not writing anything and I think, “Oh, man, I’ve got to get into it,” and procrastination sets in.

If I’m off a movie for a month on holiday or something, once the movie starts, I have no choice, but doing an album like this takes a lot more energy because the whole concept is revolved around the record. There’s no movie or dialogue or anything. The dialogue is you. That’s something which takes a lot of energy, and luckily I had it for this album because I hadn’t done one for so long, but what it’s also led to is I can’t wait to do another one. I really enjoyed it.

Buzz Knight:

I want to close with this. We produce this other podcast called Music Save Me, which is about the power of music, the healing power, and what it means to musicians. Do you believe that music is therapeutic and has healing power?

Trevor Rabin:

I absolutely believe it does. In fact, one strange thing is, at one point many years ago I wanted to get into meditation, but my brain can’t keep still. I could never slow down to meditate. Then quite early, maybe 20 years ago, I realized that, you know what? My zen moment, my meditation, is when I’m in the studio. Very often my wife will come to me. On Rio, she came to me and she said, “It’s 9:30 in the morning. Have you been here? When did you get into the studio?” I realized, “Oh, I haven’t gone to bed yet. I forgot.”

She’ll say, “Well, do you want some breakfast?” I said, “Oh, my God, I’m starving.” I don’t think about it because that zen kind of feeling, that meditational feeling, is it. That’s what the music does for me. Even when I’m on stage, the same thing happens. I absolutely feel that music is one of the medicinal necessities of the Earth.

Buzz Knight:

Well, thank you for the medicinal necessities that you’ve given me and the world, and I’m so grateful to reconnect with you again, Trevor.

Trevor Rabin:

Well, it was great talking to you.

Buzz Knight:

Thank you. Congrats on everything.

Announcer:

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Takin’ A Walk Podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends and follow us, so you never miss an episode. Taking a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.

Buzz Knight is an established media executive with a long history of content creation and multi-platform distribution.

After a successful career as a Radio Executive, he formed Buzz Knight Media which focuses on strategic guidance and the development of new original content.