Takin A Walk with Author/Music Critic Jim Sullivan

Announcer:

00:00:01.22 – 00:00:18.59

 Welcome to the Takin a walk podcast an audio storytelling diary about music hosted by Buzz Knight If you like taking a walk please spread the word to your friends and follow us at Apple Podcasts Spotify iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts

In this episode Buzz is joined by longtime Boston music critic Jim Sullivan He’s the author of the new book Backstage and Beyond 45 years of classic rock chats and rants You’ll hear great stories of music history Next with Buzz Knight and Jim Sullivan on taking a walk

Buzz Knight:

00:00:37.169 – 00:00:41.9

 Jim Sullivan It’s so great to have you on taking a walk in person

Jim Sullivan:

00:00:42.11 – 00:00:47.189

 It is so good to see you too Buzz in this lovely bucolic setting of the Chestnut Hill Reservoir

Buzz Knight:

00:00:47.2 – 00:00:58.83

 I know I love it a nice day here and we’re here to celebrate backstage and beyond 45 years of classic rock chats and rants

Jim Sullivan:

00:00:59.169 – 00:01:00.29

 Volume one

Buzz Knight:

00:01:00.709 – 00:01:04.29

 How did you choose the chats and rant part?

Jim Sullivan:

00:01:06.069 – 00:01:31.379

 Looking at it I realized some were conversational Most are conversational most are interviews most are back and forth exchanges we have But occasionally people like say Jerry Lee Lewis would go on a rant you know talking about when he wanted to kill Elvis perhaps or even saying if I didn’t give him a good review he’d kill me Now that was most likely a joke He was drinking

but in a good mood and I think he was just pulling my leg I don’t think I would have been one of his victims but there are rants too I mean people would kind of go off the rails here and there And that’s kind of fun too

Buzz Knight:

00:01:44.37 – 00:01:48.05

Of course we will come back back to Jerry Lee certainly But

I love the book but I want to go through your journey just as a sort of Boston Institution

 So talk about you know your various stops along the way that were all so great

Jim Sullivan:

00:02:04.22 – 00:02:22.74

 Uh went to college at the University of Maine uh majored in journalism and broadcasting had a column for the Bangor Daily News while I was in college a rock column called Rock Garden and uh started writing for a very good but now defunct magazine called Sweet Potato which started in Portland Maine

They opened a Boston branch 1978 which is coincidentally when I moved here and I kept writing for Sweet Potato I kept doing the column for the Bangor Daily News from afar But I had my eye on the globe too And uh I met one of their writers the late Ernie

at a show We talked he said hey yeah come into the office talk to the editor and you know that’s the short story of me kind of starting at the globe and I probably did about 10 or 12 articles freelance and designated as what they did at the time as special to the Globe And then after that one day I woke up to find my title to change to Globe Correspondent which seemed to indicate Oh ok I’m gonna be doing this on a regular basis And then uh this would have been started in I think February 79

 in 1988 I was hired full time staff and I was there through 2005

Buzz Knight:

00:03:18.11 – 00:03:23.08

 What was it like The first time you walked into the newsroom there at the Globe?

Jim Sullivan:

00:03:26.259 – 00:03:36.36

 It was different than it became because it was in the process of being built or reassembled So we were kind of working in a makeshift office It was kind of a

well it wasn’t the if you’ve seen the movie newsroom that’s identical to what I worked in I mean all those years I mean just down to it was phenomenal to watch that movie and go oh my God they even got the spiral staircase going down to the library right

But initially it was a little bit ramshackle and then we moved into better quarters but still just to sit down and to be amongst a bunch of really good writers people I’d read for years and to be the young kid I mean I was well let’s say 79 I was about 23

And uh so I though I had experience uh not the kind of experience most of those people had and I mean it wasn’t really intimidating because I I did feel like I belonged but it was it was a great high to kind of feel the energy at the time And of course that was a time when there were people in the newsroom and people took phone calls and there was a lot of action and inter interaction Uh It wasn’t remote journalism as we so often have it today

Buzz Knight:

00:04:36.329 – 00:04:44.76

 You know when I would go to work for Greater Media over there on Morrisey Boulevard I got to experience the Globe

Jim Sullivan:

00:04:44.769 – 00:04:55.684

 Cafeteria I knew you were going to say that we got a lot of people from your building coming over who were just delighted to have pretty good food at pretty good price

Right Am I right Oh yeah Yeah it was it was funny because for us it was like ok well they have the cafeteria here They don’t want us to go out of the building There’s no good restaurants near us anyway So they want us just to go upstairs eat something decent come back down take a half hour And you know I mean not that anybody said that but I think that was probably part of the logic of having this cafeteria there

and I worked for both sides Um you know I very rarely went out of the building for my midday lunch break or whatever it was I took it was just too convenient and too easy to get something I wanted there

Buzz Knight:

00:05:29.459 – 00:05:38.369

 So one of my fondest memories was actually being able to sit with a coworker and Will McDonough and sit and

you know chew the fat as we were having lunch This is unbelievable

Jim Sullivan:

00:05:41.049 – 00:05:44.42

 But you talked a lot of golf

Buzz Knight:

00:05:44.429 – 00:05:46.16

we talked we talked a lot of trash

Jim Sullivan:

00:05:46.17 – 00:06:01.359

 trash trash trash and it was cool trash You know what I mean Well it’s fun going off the record obviously with you know people who are in the business and you know you can share those things with sort of the idea that it is privately shared and we all share

some of the same triumphs and some of the same tragedies I’m sure And uh the frustration of dealing with you know certain people who are above you and made decisions you didn’t quite concur with I’m sure that was common to all but will was a tiger I mean he was just uh I mean before he became a TV personality and you know on on NF I mean he was a very uh what’s the right word

I didn’t want to say I don’t want to say vitriolic because he wasn’t a vitriolic writer He could be but he was just very incisive He had great contacts and I mean he was a must read if you were a football fan And

I almost golfed with him one day A friend of mine I think it was Steve Sweeney and he and I were gonna play and then we’ll have to buy out because it was something at the last minute So I never did get to do that but I did play the course that he belonged to where there is a plaque or there has been a plaque for but his favorite hole and um that’s the one in Bolton Um God I’m space on the name What was it

The international That’s it Of course Yeah that was Wills He belonged there And uh one of the holes on the back nine there was a nice plaque there Saluting Will after he died.

Buzz Knight:

00:07:13.529 – 00:07:20.315

 cool You want to Yeah So there’s so many great stories that people should look for

or two in the book And the theme of taking a walk is really music history So you have lived through music history and you write about it in your terrific book So maybe we could walk through a number of the special interviews and scenarios and experiences that you had So I’m just gonna shoot a few of them by you

Buzz Knight:

00:07:44.92 – 00:07:47.25

 John Fogerty What was that like

Jim Sullivan:

00:07:47.799 – 00:08:12.51

 That was actually not an in person interview I did see him in concert and covered it But that was a very in depth phone interview And you know he had come out of his period of animosity towards Saul who had his songs and he was feeling very free about his past playing his songs his his present

  the fact that his band kicked ass that his kid was a guitar player in his band And um the one thing I asked him which I really liked was uh you know when he first heard a Cantina when did he first hear I Cantina Do Proud Me And he said it was by accident in the car on the car radio And I said what do you think And I forget his exact answer But he said basically kicked ass It was so good

and I’m not sure if he said it was better than Credence is definitely different but I think he recognized that that song They brought it up to a higher level

Buzz Knight:

00:08:46.77 – 00:08:50.02

 Well what about Tina Turner So what type of was that in

Jim Sullivan:

00:08:50.03 – 00:09:01.58

In person Yeah there was a dinner her record company Capital had arranged a dinner with me and some of the Capitol Reps and I guess a few others um in Boston

And um she was just about to release an album and was at a point of wondering whether she wanted to tour behind the record because she kinda at that point had it with touring I mean as such a great performer as she was which you knew it was like she wanted to act she actually wanted to just kind of move on and maybe move off that stage And you know so she said

I forget the exact number But she said you know if it doesn’t do whatever number of sales you know maybe I will go out on the road Uh well of course it was a smash hit and uh she toured long after that and did several I think farewell tours before she finally retired and then lived her life out in Geneva Um she was great though One of the things about her she was very

she was very dressed down I mean I think it was like tan slacks and a jacket or something like that And of course people are always a little shocked not to see her in her you know stage gear not that they should be because people don’t wear stage gear around But you know she was demure in her own way And I I think one of the things I found very ingratiating was she was very candid She was talking about some of the skin problems she had lately and like you know and I’m of course sitting there thinking Tina Turner I got this most beautiful woman that

well one of the most beautiful women in the world right And here she is talking to me in some detail about some of the skin issues She has and I’m going oh God Tina I mean I appreciate it That’s great It’s great to have someone open up and be that candid about her life and the trust she has I guess in you And uh and she was very

yeah it was just a terrific time a great memory And then of course after her death and you know I pulled a lot of those things out and you know kind of went back there and

uh mentally and just kind of thought about what a what a good dinner it was And then all the many good concerts I’ve seen from her

Buzz Knight:

00:11:02.09 – 00:11:04.77

 Isn’t River Deep Mountain High One of the greatest freaking

Jim Sullivan:

00:11:05.229 – 00:11:22.9

 absolutely is I mean it’s you know my top 10 if I had one it shifts all the time and that’s I think always bouncing around in there somewhere isn’t it I mean it’s just it’s just so good so incredible You know what one thing I liked about Tina too was I covered it back in the early eighties when she

was mostly doing the Vegas stuff and had not really reemerged as a rock and roll performer She was certainly not a star anymore And she played what was then called the Bradford Ballroom Now it’s Royal on Boylston Street in Boston and drew a great crowd

And what was so good was it was so fiery and it was so hard there was no element of Vegas uh glitz about it or Showbiz Schlock or anything I mean it was a kick ass rock and roll show and she did a lot of covers some stone stuff and I mean she’s always been a covers girls doesn’t you know I mean that’s part of what she did Um but she just invested so much in that and then you know when she ascended the ladder again

it was very rewarding in a way you know feel good for her certainly And for the arenas of people that would now see her But it also felt great to think back in the club of seeing her you know at a point when she wasn’t at her best financially I’m sure she needed to work and you know she had no idea what the future was going to hold if she would come back most people her age don’t you know and we know what the trajectory tends to be and she defied that trajectory And

I always felt very good about that tremendous

Buzz Knight:

00:12:45.57 – 00:12:51.669

 So what was the experience like in the period of time We just saw a little bunny crossing over here on the path

Jim Sullivan:

00:12:51.679 – 00:12:53.07

 We will see wildlife out here

Buzz Knight:

00:12:53.5 – 00:12:59.349

 Hill Reservoir Thank God my dog wasn’t here I won’t go into that gory detail

Jim Sullivan:

00:12:59.44 – 00:13:07.75

 please So did the bunny attack the dog Is that it Yeah Right Yeah Like Monty Python’s bunny right Attack

Buzz Knight:

00:13:07.76 – 00:13:12.88

 rabbit Right Elmer If you’re listening I’m very angry at you But anyway

Buzz Knight:

00:13:13.9 – 00:13:18.049

 what was the experience like And when was it with Roy Orbison

Jim Sullivan:

00:13:21.15 – 00:13:43.479

 in person a couple of times up at the club casino in New Hampshire And again this was kind of similar to Tina Uh he was he’d had his hits he was playing in the clubs Um he was adored by his fan base but his fan base wasn’t huge and they were older and I walked into the first time

not really prepared as to how great and how emotional it was going to be I should have been I could have been but somehow I went in going oh I think it’s gonna be good It just knocked my socks off with the power all this emotion and voice coming out of this tiny little o of a mouth and he’s stoic He stands there and he just with his sunglasses on and he just sings and this operatic music rock music comes out

and much of it sad you know lonely and I just was so moved and then I met him afterwards and

it was a very warm conversation And

what I remember too is when we met we hugged and this was well in the eighties the early eighties I guess this was a day before a guy routine We hugged each other right now We all kind of do It’s kind or you don’t know you this you shake hands you hug you don’t know but back then it it was a warm hug and and embrace it felt right I think for both of us and there was one more time also at the club casino and um it just you know just really great memories

Jim Sullivan:

00:14:55.14 – 00:15:21.07

 The in depth interview I did with him which I believe was the last one he ever did aside from a brief TV appearance uh was done for the Globe before Well he was in Paris and he was starting his tour he was playing the Boston Club the channel and I was doing an advanced interview and he was very excited because he had the new record coming out Um

Jim Sullivan:

00:15:21.77 – 00:15:44.405

 You got it Um And he knew it was good I knew it was good I had advanced tape on it and I asked him you know are you going to be playing songs from it during the show And he just kind of very politely said well no Jim I don’t think I can do that for my audience right now The band doesn’t quite know him yet but mostly it’s like I don’t want to get give them things they don’t know because he knew

Jim Sullivan:

00:15:44.414 – 00:16:14.369

 his crowd wanted to hear hits from whatever era and you know a new song or would take up that they didn’t know would take up that set time And nevertheless he was very much looking forward to that next tour when he said yeah and then I’ll start working a few of these and and you know he could possibly see the trajectory of the reemergence which of course he had after his death you know from a sales and recognition point of view Um

Jim Sullivan:

00:16:15.4 – 00:16:16.39

 it’s sad how that

Buzz Knight:

00:16:16.4 – 00:16:17.25

 happened you know

Jim Sullivan:

00:16:17.26 – 00:16:25.669

 it was that kills me I was uh broken up I mean that was a funny story I guess Um

Jim Sullivan:

00:16:26.559 – 00:16:27.89

 when he

I’d written a story and reviewed the show and then it was midweek I guess it was and I worked late night So I was sleeping at 10 in the morning or whatever it was phone rings and my editor calls up and says well Orbison decide can you come in and do the story So as we journalists do we try to collect ourselves and try to put the tears and the emotion to the side and

Jim Sullivan:

00:16:54.4 – 00:17:03.84

 you know hunker down and you know write the story which I ultimately did But the kind of amusing part I suppose is that I had had the

Jim Sullivan:

00:17:04.68 – 00:17:23.969

 it was supposed to be a day off for me and the night before I’d gone out and I’d had a few drinks and that morning I was a bit hungover So when that phone call came what And then Roy Well of course I kind of step to it Nevertheless my hangover said I’m still hanging around I’m a hangover That’s what I do

Jim Sullivan:

00:17:24.25 – 00:17:38.04

 Oh sorry Ok So when I went into my editor’s office um that day I just came right and I lived in Quincy not far from the globe I walked in they said I’m gonna be honest with you This was a day off And uh

Jim Sullivan:

00:17:38.39 – 00:18:08.089

 I told him what I just told you and I I just said do me a favor just do a really careful edit on this I mean I know you do anyway but you know my mind you know I’m dealing with the tragedy one my own situation too And you know just you know do a good at it and he did And so he was and he respected me for saying yep I get it Ok I said that’s the situation we’re in here So uh but I I miss him so much I mean that the uh

Jim Sullivan:

00:18:08.369 – 00:18:35.239

 you know I too was just so much looking forward to his reemergence and hearing the songs and um he was a very gentle soul not as lonely as his songs suggest He said that does that is me It comes from a place in me a real place But no he didn’t carry that around you know and he had a very kind of gentle warm sense of humor Um he had also uh recently

Jim Sullivan:

00:18:35.56 – 00:19:05.3

 found religion or refound religion I guess maybe born again uh not my world but I respect his and he was you know very humble in that sense the way people tend to be when they’re born again or or rediscover their faith or or what have you And uh one of the incidents he recalled was going I think it was in Toronto going to a concert going up to the building and see on the marquee Roy Orbison sold out

Jim Sullivan:

00:19:06.119 – 00:19:31.03

 and just said that for whatever reason that was a moment of oh wow Now you think you may have seen this kind of marquee other times and I’m sure he did many times in his life but for some reason that just hit him as I’m successful I’m still successful and that gave him that uh some sort of inner boost that just you know motivated him I guess So That’s tremendous A legend

Buzz Knight:

00:19:31.04 – 00:19:31.42

 Yeah

Buzz Knight:

00:19:32.199 – 00:19:48.219

 So I want to talk about Neil Young and uh just as a sidebar to it I got to go over uh to the box center slash Wang and uh record an episode of the podcast with Joe Spalding over there

Jim Sullivan:

00:19:48.229 – 00:19:53.364

 and Joe’s kind of come out of his shell hasn’t he Oh God he’s amazing I’m joking Of course

Buzz Knight:

00:19:53.375 – 00:20:14.55

 it’s amazing So we toured the Folk Americana uh museum which is fabulous And um but he told me the story how Neil was the uh the genesis of the Folk Americana Museum being there Um And this was when Neil came through I guess it would have been

2018 or maybe year 19 which that’s the only time I ever saw Neil over there which

Jim Sullivan:

00:20:21.63 – 00:20:24.92

 was I saw that show I can’t remember the year Exactly Incredible

Buzz Knight:

00:20:24.93 – 00:20:28.099

 show Just still think about it and

Buzz Knight:

00:20:28.439 – 00:20:34.709

 blew my mind But when did you run into Neil And what was that experience Like mostly

Jim Sullivan:

00:20:34.719 – 00:20:53.38

 phone interviews one in person thing backstage after a show at the venue formerly known as Great Woods which I will always refer to as Great Woods as opposed to some bank or some cable company But and that was really nice She invited me into his dressing room with candles and tapestries And

Jim Sullivan:

00:20:53.8 – 00:21:12.849

 I got I got to ask him a question I want to ask him for years which was um did he really join Lynyrd Skynyrd on stage to sing Sweet Home Alabama That was a rumor at the time And he said no but I was on my way to I was going to do that when the plane crash went down

Jim Sullivan:

00:21:13.29 – 00:21:28.854

 And what a moment that would have been to hear Neil Young sing I hope Neil Young will remember Southern Man Don’t need him around anyhow God what a great bit that would have been Uh and of course Ronnie Van Zant used to wear his tonight’s tonight Neil Young

Jim Sullivan:

00:21:28.864 – 00:21:44.439

 So they had a kinship They weren’t they didn’t hate each other I just thought it was a great little anecdote I wish that had happened But um in the interviews I mean terrific I mean much like the music you would go in any every direction

Jim Sullivan:

00:21:44.67 – 00:21:59.77

 Um And but it was very committed to whatever direction he was going at the moment And one of the ones that I recall most was when he put together the international Harvesters and did a country tour that went to Foxborough

Jim Sullivan:

00:22:00.28 – 00:22:17.42

 I just call it Foxboro Stadium or maybe Sullivan Stadium as it once was Might have been then for all I know Um and uh ok so it was a country thing and then he had uh who was opening It was way or Willie who was opening I forgot Anyway Um And

Jim Sullivan:

00:22:17.68 – 00:22:41.4

 so he’s talking to me about his move back to you know into country music He’d been there before kind of but he was more known for at that point the hard rock the crazy horse And so you know I said so what happened to that And he said how many how many loud screaming electric guitar solos can you do anyway I’ve had it This is where I am I’m like an old town circling the rug and I found my spot

Jim Sullivan:

00:22:42.54 – 00:22:43.52

 and

Jim Sullivan:

00:22:44.209 – 00:23:02.02

 he did for a while right And as we all know about Neil and I think probably comes through in my chapter pretty well He finds a spot He’s very committed to it and then he decides he needs another spot and then he you know recorded some rockabilly music and uh

Jim Sullivan:

00:23:02.16 – 00:23:22.369

 uh you know he did the trend synthesizer album I forget the lineage of it But as we know Neil went around and through many dating different genres he kind of often and always maybe returned to Crazy Horse I think that was kind of a base for him And he did love that loud screaming three corn rock n roll A little messy and

Jim Sullivan:

00:23:22.78 – 00:23:40.819

 but it was it was just he was fascinating to talk to because he was no holds part of course And back in the musicians starting to sponsor or sponsors signing up musicians to do ads for them And he of course was adamantly against that and he

Jim Sullivan:

00:23:41.239 – 00:24:09.959

 did a song riffing on the this Bud’s for You campaign back in the day all this songs for you or this notes for you this notes for you I think it was and he is just you know very much against that idea that musicians should quote unquote you know sell their soul for commercial needs Things have changed obviously not with Neil I don’t think he’s ever done anything or ever would But as we know the way the paradigm has changed in music musicians really have to make money through

Jim Sullivan:

00:24:10.359 – 00:24:25.68

 any means necessary Now that CD and LP sales are not what they were and you know placing a song in a movie or a TV show or doing an advert as Bob Dylan will tell you can bring in a lot of cash and

Jim Sullivan:

00:24:25.829 – 00:24:41.859

 it doesn’t really I guess damage the artist’s reputation as much as it maybe did in the day or maybe when Neil was talking about it back when I think people just kind of shrug and go well we understand that’s the way of the world now And when you see your your uh

Jim Sullivan:

00:24:42.229 – 00:24:54.359

 famous rocker that you revere selling I don’t know whatever product that they are signed up to sell Um you know you just got to go ok you got to make your money somehow I accept it Well speaking

Buzz Knight:

00:24:54.369 – 00:25:03.43

 of that I want to get your perspective on artist selling catalogs How do you take that Do you think that’s ultimately

Buzz Knight:

00:25:03.63 – 00:25:10.5

 you know from your perspective going to keep proving to be of tremendous value But what’s your take on that

Jim Sullivan:

00:25:10.51 – 00:25:26.0

 world I would say so I mean the number of artists who have done it as they have hit their well what seventies mostly you know it’s money big money for a lot of them cadre comes by

Jim Sullivan:

00:25:27.78 – 00:25:33.819

 I I you know said hell or other people but these don’t seem like bad people Um well

Buzz Knight:

00:25:33.829 – 00:25:35.579

 unlike the family out there

Jim Sullivan:

00:25:35.589 – 00:25:53.339

 anyway Oh well he’s not bad He’s good He’s just fishing huh He’s awesome Oh I like um let’s see Where was I Oh cat sales Um yeah I mean I think they see it as both retirement money and money for their family investment money and you know

Jim Sullivan:

00:25:53.55 – 00:26:08.63

 they’re not going to live forever and why not take advantage of that and come up with a big chunk of cash that will benefit their family probably for generations to come And uh you know of course

Jim Sullivan:

00:26:09.06 – 00:26:14.8

 you know when the music is is out of their hands Well but it can go anywhere You know and I’m

Buzz Knight:

00:26:14.81 – 00:26:19.14

 skeptical of the valuations holding up I just I just am I don’t

Jim Sullivan:

00:26:19.15 – 00:26:28.04

 know why they do seem astronomical don’t they I will grant you that I mean but yeah I don’t I don’t know uh predicting the future on that one is just too tough

Jim Sullivan:

00:26:29.06 – 00:26:29.76

 Let’s talk

Buzz Knight:

00:26:29.77 – 00:26:30.51

 about

Buzz Knight:

00:26:31.05 – 00:26:39.18

 a man I’m sure you might have encountered once or twice or 300 times Peter Wolf Oh yeah

Buzz Knight:

00:26:39.52 – 00:26:40.469

 Our brother from

Jim Sullivan:

00:26:40.479 – 00:27:06.26

 another mother Yeah many many many many times And going back to when I was a kid and growing up in ORO slash Bangor Maine Bangor Auditorium was the only place people came to do concerts and the JG band was pretty much our house band in that sense Uh I can’t tell you how many times they played there but a simple answer would be a lot and I did not miss one of them and

Jim Sullivan:

00:27:07.04 – 00:27:16.239

 it was astonishing the energy and the vibe and the the sound and then just the way it all clicked And you know I’m young

Jim Sullivan:

00:27:16.63 – 00:27:37.584

 and I’m seeing this and going wow this isn’t great Is it always that great And I had this conversation years later with Joe Perry from Arrowsmith He too was a few years older than me but he had that kind of experience too seeing Giles And he was telling me he said you see them right away and you and you think everything’s like this and then you realize it

Jim Sullivan:

00:27:37.594 – 00:27:58.56

 isn’t they are just a cut above or more than that the rest And he you know he was very humbled in kind of devaluing AOL Smith’s bad boys of Boston uh tag and saying no GS man really is you know I mean he was very much passing that passing that mantle on to them and

Jim Sullivan:

00:27:59.41 – 00:28:26.76

 you know I I guess I started interviewing them uh probably first year in college writing for Sweet Potato magazine and spending some time backstage with the gang and uh you know mostly wolf I guess he was the voice and you know he he’s a mercurial guy as I’m sure you all know um has his up moods has his down moods Uh He is a great uh

Jim Sullivan:

00:28:27.26 – 00:28:39.8

 both historian and Babbler and I don’t mean babbler in a bad way you know his radio patois DJ Patois which I won’t even come attempt to imitate you Never never No no never

Jim Sullivan:

00:28:40.4 – 00:28:41.42

 Um

Jim Sullivan:

00:28:42.14 – 00:29:00.569

 Yeah So I I mean it was in some ways I don’t know if it was ground floor material but it was one of the bands I wrote about often and got to know quite well in the early days of me doing this and then you know subsequent interviews over the years for various outlets And um he’s the best you know he’s

Jim Sullivan:

00:29:01.109 – 00:29:22.079

 gone on to do what can be a difficult thing I mean he left the band when they were at the peak of their popularity and launched a solo career that didn’t hit the JG band heights of their popularity but proved to be a very successful thing with Duke Levine one of the best guitarists in the world in his band

Jim Sullivan:

00:29:22.339 – 00:29:46.729

 Midnight Travelers And uh you know he’s gone on to play he plays theaters and large clubs and his energy is still there He doesn’t what he doesn’t do is do you remember he used to do that jumping frog thing right He doesn’t do that I mean when I saw him last no he can’t do that anymore But Jesus he’s got energy and I mean this is like zero body fat right And um you know so

Jim Sullivan:

00:29:47.14 – 00:29:52.829

 he really puts everything into it and I do believe he’s finally getting the book together

Buzz Knight:

00:29:53.18 – 00:29:56.439

 That’s when I saw something him doing reedits or something

Jim Sullivan:

00:29:57.109 – 00:30:10.06

 I know in his backyard people have been nagging him for years because of all the people he knows from Ben Morrison to the stones to oh God you know old blues guys everybody And

Jim Sullivan:

00:30:10.68 – 00:30:35.969

 I think uh yeah II I think that’s coming at some point I don’t know what I did ask him about it once And I said so you know I mean we’ve all read rock n roll bios and memoirs Uh Is it going to be salacious at all And he said no no he’s not going to be telling stories of drugs and drinking debauchery I don’t know maybe a little bit but not not extensively There’s gotta be a tidy there’ll be someone

Jim Sullivan:

00:30:35.979 – 00:30:50.0

 Sure But I think it’s more about the connections he made and the friends he made and you know the fact that you look at it and he’s kind of a Zelig of rock and roll doesn’t he He is he’s just sort of been everywhere and continues to be everywhere He’s one of the greatest

Buzz Knight:

00:30:50.01 – 00:30:58.979

 storytellers too Yeah he really is just so mesmerized that every time he tells a story who was the first person that you ever interviewed

Jim Sullivan:

00:30:59.459 – 00:31:02.589

 Uh that is in the intro of the book

Jim Sullivan:

00:31:02.77 – 00:31:32.709

 backstage and beyond it slayed the glam rock man from England Boul Hampton England working class towns city They were last on a triple bill Easy top headline Bangor Maine again I was not yet a writer I was doing this for a college radio station taping an interview with them and putting it on the air with putting music into it And

Jim Sullivan:

00:31:33.069 – 00:31:56.369

 Andrew who we all know there was the concert promoter back then in Maine helped get me in the door backstage door there was much less of passes and access and you know players to get through in those days And I was a neophyte of course carrying a tape deck with me and meeting guys who were kind of my heroes because even though

Jim Sullivan:

00:31:56.829 – 00:32:07.38

 no one virtually knew them in the United States and they played a half hour set to a lukewarm reception except in my little corner they were huge in England They had hit after hit after hit

Jim Sullivan:

00:32:07.77 – 00:32:36.79

 And because of my reading of magazines like rock scene and Cream and Circus I picked up on them and bought the albums and you know they were really right up at the top of my list at the time I I listen to all the time So for me I’m kind of going into it you know meeting these guys I revere but when they see me they’re just so happy to have an American journalist and I guess I should put bunny quotes around them because I was a fledgling journalist at that time

Jim Sullivan:

00:32:37.04 – 00:33:05.739

 uh want to talk to them and knew who they were and ask them questions about their songs that I knew and where they’ve been which I knew and the bonding was just it couldn’t have been better you couldn’t have asked for a better entree into the world I would later enter full time and you know there were beers drunk and stories told and I they made me feel like one of the gang and I mean that’s kind of what slate songs did

Jim Sullivan:

00:33:05.939 – 00:33:25.739

 anyway let’s make the listener feel a part of it and in person uh same thing and uh two memorable quotes that I remember I mean the tape is a long loss to the winds of time or or maybe you would know this in radio the the waves go out and they go on forever Right It’s correct So it’s some some alien might be listening to this right now Ok

Jim Sullivan:

00:33:25.989 – 00:33:26.92

 Um just

Buzz Knight:

00:33:26.93 – 00:33:28.869

 like Sammy Alien might be listening to this podcast

Jim Sullivan:

00:33:29.04 – 00:33:53.939

 sometime Millennium down the road Anyway Um what was the two things I remember Uh I asked Noddy Holder the singer and I said uh yeah I love that name By the way it’s a great what a great rock and roll man And uh he was the one with AM Cap mirrored top out And uh I asked him I said so you know you’ve been doing this for a few years Do you still get excited every night on stage He goes oh I do my jeans as stiff as a board

Jim Sullivan:

00:33:54.619 – 00:34:21.86

 I’m sure your listeners get that And the other question I remember asking and him answering they did a cover of John Sebastian Darwin be home soon on their slate of live record Fabulous version Seven minutes or so or something like that And they do a great vamp you know near the end of it Boom boo boo And in the middle of that vamp Naughty just lets out this

Jim Sullivan:

00:34:24.05 – 00:34:40.09

 and then the vamp continues and you know when I listened to it at home when I got the record I go that’s pretty funny humorous uh interesting So I asked him I said was that planned He said no no just happened and he didn’t take it out No Why

Jim Sullivan:

00:34:40.949 – 00:34:41.909

 It’s like

Buzz Knight:

00:34:41.919 – 00:34:42.36

 spinal

Jim Sullivan:

00:34:43.449 – 00:34:57.715

 No But the thing is it worked it worked And I mean it’s a great passionate song A come home and then you know the break is just sort of got Burt Ok And then back in the song I I just I mean that was so humanizing to me

Jim Sullivan:

00:34:57.725 – 00:35:22.715

 Yeah And anyway they uh I caught up with Dave Hill a guitar player years later actually uh two years ago and I included some of what we talked about in the book intro and you know just kind of recall that time way back when And I thanked him said hey you don’t know it but your warmth large jass and acceptance kind of brought me into what I ended up doing for most of my life But did that

Buzz Knight:

00:35:22.725 – 00:35:26.189

 experience sort of shape you to be able to

Buzz Knight:

00:35:26.59 – 00:35:32.59

 create this connection with some of your subjects that you know happens through and

Jim Sullivan:

00:35:32.6 – 00:35:49.659

 through in the book Yes I think I’m a good interviewer and I think part of that is I do the research and I have an idea of where I want to go with the interview but I also listen to the answers and if the answers go in a different place And it’s interesting I follow that there too

Jim Sullivan:

00:35:49.889 – 00:36:19.199

 And I think you know in a simple way the key is to try to get on the artist’s wavelength whatever that might be And you know with just mentioned Jerry Lee again for a second with him he was drinking whiskey with him and firing things back and forth jokes quips some serious shit some stuff about how he was going He was wondering whether he’s going to go to heaven or hell and all that stuff and then say with Roy Orbison where you know he had a sort of a spiritual kind of thing and a serious kind of thing going on to it and

Jim Sullivan:

00:36:19.639 – 00:36:48.76

 in between I mean all kinds of different moods atmospheres Um But you try to get a sense for where they’re coming from and try to live on that same turf I think And uh I do think that shows in the book I mean the there are many genres represented in many different tones in the book from you know serious to humorous to uh you know anecdotal um you know some profound some trivial Uh But

Jim Sullivan:

00:36:49.37 – 00:37:13.02

 I I got the feeling that many times artists would open up to me Would they say things they wouldn’t say to others I don’t know I’m sure some of the stuff went everywhere You know when you’re doing an interview you say certain things over and over I guess But I really did get the sense often There was an intimacy that was there and a trust that was there And um it just sort of uh

Jim Sullivan:

00:37:14.389 – 00:37:29.784

 Peter Hook The he’s in the second book a new order join division bass player He just sent me a blurb for the second book It is very funny hooky And I have known each other for years and get on well And of course as male friends do they take the piss out of each other And he did a little bit of that

Jim Sullivan:

00:37:29.794 – 00:37:45.199

 I forget the exact words But he is also very good about saying Jim is never been afraid to say to the effect of say when you know when we suck he’ll say we sucked you know you know no holds part there But then you know Jim has been a friend for years and you know like his writing or something like that

Jim Sullivan:

00:37:45.409 – 00:37:48.229

 Um And I kind of like that I like that

Buzz Knight:

00:37:48.75 – 00:38:00.489

 as well Well the other one that really struck me too in that regard in a different sense was the connection that you develop with Warren X that you you know write about and share the experience

Jim Sullivan:

00:38:00.5 – 00:38:04.679

 in the years and years First time 78

Jim Sullivan:

00:38:05.01 – 00:38:15.919

 Berkeley Performance Center he was drunk I came down from Maine to see the show I was a big fan of that first album The Electro Asylum album And

Jim Sullivan:

00:38:16.719 – 00:38:37.689

 it wasn’t a horrible show It was just sloppy and he was drunk and he had a cup of clear liquid He kept drinking all night went backstage To say hi and drunk Warren So it was kind of just hi Hey hi You know hi And uh I interviewed him for real uh three years later at the globe I guess first real you know first real interview with him

Jim Sullivan:

00:38:38.0 – 00:39:01.8

 Um and I reminded him of our first meeting and then I said what I just said here and he said yeah that figures when I asked if you remembered it and he said no you know and uh that was him that was him at the time Um We again uh that wavelength thing uh we found it Uh we shared a similar wry dark sense of humor

Jim Sullivan:

00:39:02.139 – 00:39:16.919

 love of books and reading And there was a point in our relationship actually where we’d I’d call him up I had his home number at the time and we just kind of talk books mostly and I love that And you know

Jim Sullivan:

00:39:17.429 – 00:39:24.36

 it was it was great to bring it out of rock and roll or beyond rock and roll at times And um

Jim Sullivan:

00:39:25.27 – 00:39:45.264

 you know he his career obviously had ups and downs and you know most people think he peaked with orals of London and that’s all they know And the people who followed him know this so much more There’s always that debate about rock and roll Hall of Fame which I don’t want to get into now because it’s kind of superfluous Uh Nope didn’t make it this year once again But

Jim Sullivan:

00:39:45.274 – 00:40:12.479

 um the body of work that he created uh is just some of the best again ranging from the humorous and and quick witted rhyme schemes subject matter that was could be historical or it could be it could be Um well I mean obviously you know funny He did funny but he I remember he was there was a record I think it was sentimental Hien where we were talking about that and he said you know Jim

Jim Sullivan:

00:40:12.679 – 00:40:32.83

 I decided not to do funny this time I just decided look if we’re gonna do dark let’s go dark and let’s do it all the way It was like yeah there was a song run straight down He did with Pink Floyd’s David Gilmore That was very much that about you know the apocalypse on the way or something And um you know his

Jim Sullivan:

00:40:33.35 – 00:40:53.59

 his his range was phenomenal Uh he was a a terrific pianist a functional guitarist and a great entertainer in that even when the money dried up and he couldn’t bring a band to join him He played solo tours and he would pack the paradise time and time again in Boston

Jim Sullivan:

00:40:53.86 – 00:41:12.36

 And he would often do it during the winter and then he’d go up to Maine and play ski lodges You know there was money to be made and he was a working musician And yeah I had a lot of respect for that and you know he knew where his status was it wasn’t what it once was or would ever be again

Jim Sullivan:

00:41:12.639 – 00:41:32.959

 But you know he worked at his craft continually and you know he made friends he made enemies and the chapters got a few of those things in it There’s some tough stuff in there Uh He had a relapse in his alcoholism uh toward the end And Carl Hayes and the terrific novelist from Miami

Jim Sullivan:

00:41:33.239 – 00:41:58.25

 was a friend and co writer with three songs with uh Warren And I talked to Carl I think around 2010 And uh he told me about some of the the final days that he was privy to or what he knew about There’s some harrowing tales uh Warren did put out for however he did it I don’t know I put out a just tremendous final record and um with knocking on heaven’s door on it

Jim Sullivan:

00:41:58.439 – 00:42:05.659

 I mean the most profound version you’ll ever hear of that I think considering where he was in his life And

Jim Sullivan:

00:42:06.219 – 00:42:09.629

 you know I think according to what I know anyway he

Jim Sullivan:

00:42:10.239 – 00:42:23.6

 was convinced to kind of put the booze aside at the end because his kids wouldn’t want to see him go out like that And I think he did do that Um I didn’t know him really in the drinking days

Jim Sullivan:

00:42:24.12 – 00:42:39.629

 One of the problems that I think it was who told me this was that once he started drinking again he had some of those people who never drank with him but wanted to and they said hey Warren’s drinking again let’s go get drunk with Warren and he let him in and they drink and

Jim Sullivan:

00:42:39.79 – 00:43:08.78

 enabling I guess is the word right And that wasn’t good for anybody Um but when I knew him in the bulk of it I mean he was you know in the in the program and uh the funny anecdote that’s in the in the book from that is we were at Musso and Frank and Hollywood having lunch you know doing an interview and I sat down and we ordered our drinks He ordered a diet Coke and I ordered a beer and

Jim Sullivan:

00:43:08.969 – 00:43:29.739

 immediately after ordering it somewhat aware of a a protocol or whatever I said oh shit Should I not have done that I I mean you know yeah you’re ordering a beer There goes all those years of sobriety because you’re having a beer in front of me and I was like good good answer Fine thanks I’ll have my beer That’s all right Um

Buzz Knight:

00:43:29.75 – 00:43:36.6

 So it’s a great segment Uh so many great segments in the book So Jim if there was one

Buzz Knight:

00:43:37.639 – 00:43:55.54

 trait of all of the guests that uh you know that you had um on you know in the book um spent time with multiple times If there’s one trait of these artists that is one thread of consistency what would it be

Jim Sullivan:

00:43:56.81 – 00:44:04.129

 Well there’s 31 chapters in the first volume Uh the kinks have 21 devoted to Dave and one devoted to brag

00:44:04.409 – 00:44:13.939

 uh because he really had to separate them keep them separated Um as they often were when they went to concerts they never rode in the same together

Jim Sullivan:

00:44:14.679 – 00:44:24.649

 They worked on stage together They were brothers they loved each other they hated each other Uh but in terms of a trait that would run through all of them Oh that I don’t know Um

Jim Sullivan:

00:44:25.25 – 00:44:47.949

 because there’s so many different personalities and so many different people at different phases of their life And one thing about this book I kind of make this clear at the beginning is that these are not complete biographies of any of these people These are moments in time or extended moments in time and this is where they were at and where I was at at that time And thus uh

Jim Sullivan:

00:44:48.219 – 00:45:01.51

 you know you see Ray Davies for instance in a very reflective mood in the first interview and very self recriminating in some ways castigating himself for some of the errors he made and bad decisions he made over the years

Jim Sullivan:

00:45:03.03 – 00:45:19.219

 You know and I have had uh artist say after an interview saying it was kind of like therapy Um good I I think that’s a good thing I mean I’m I’m not a therapist and nor do I know I play one on TV Um But I you know I guess

Jim Sullivan:

00:45:19.81 – 00:45:26.07

 I asked questions that maybe were penetrating or led to deeper thought than

Jim Sullivan:

00:45:26.86 – 00:45:38.57

 you know do you think your next song is going to be a hit And um II I think they appreciated that and came back most of the time with something good Um

Jim Sullivan:

00:45:39.54 – 00:45:48.409

 occasionally I’m going off topic a little bit but this is kind of funny Occasionally I piss somebody off I interviewed one of the Judas priest guitarists

Uh before the singer Rob Halford came out as gay That was I don’t know 10 years after that but the gay imagery it was all over their songs Rob’s appearance on his motorcycle and his leather I think he’s still riding the motorcycle He is sure he wouldn’t give that up a trademark anyway So you know at the end of the interview and I knew I had to ask this at the end I forget if it was Glenn or KK one of the guitar players I said very kind of innocently

Jim Sullivan:

00:46:17.51 – 00:46:24.26

 Rob is gay right II I mean I’m listening to the songs and looking at the album covers hang up

and then when they slash Rob decided it was safe to come out of the closet Yeah Then it was fine You know they talk about it Oh yeah Sure Fine And you know when the audience proved that they were accepting of it like we don’t care you know But I guess maybe it

that point in time you know it was a dicey issue and Rob himself hadn’t come out So I’m sure the guitarist felt he could he wouldn’t be the one to break it And I think he was kind of stunned by the question I was like you know we just had a good talking Now you’re asking me this So click Yeah that’s right You need for a good copy

Buzz Knight:

00:47:00.659 – 00:47:08.33

 There you go Congratulations on the book Jim Thank you And it’s a great ride It’s a great read

Buzz Knight:

00:47:08.56 – 00:47:12.6

 And uh I enjoyed it and looking forward to volume two When is that gonna be out?

Jim Sullivan:

00:47:12.61 – 00:47:17.719

gonna be out in October So the way um

the way it’s kind of set up volume one is artists who started in the fifties through artists who started in the early mid-seventies Volume two takes off around the mid-seventies artists who began then which is to say it’s sort of the punk post punk new wave era Uh Now some of the artists in volume one Iggy Pop and Lou Reed and Roxy music

David Bowie certainly influenced the generations to come but they got their start back when the second volume deals with Yeah the people that were inspired by that and formed this thing punk rock which had many different variants of course but led to an explosion of taste and emotion and a different sound of that era It’s not all exclusively that but that’s generally how the books are broken up

 My hope is that readers will be interested in both Um you know mirror my own interest in music of all genres from all eras

That’s the as we were talking about earlier That’s kind of your idea too Right You like a lot of different stuff It doesn’t matter where it came from

Buzz Knight:

00:48:26.31 – 00:48:33.189

 Try to be as broad as we can Yeah Well we look forward to having you to talk about Volume 2

Jim Sullivan:

00:48:33.5 – 00:48:34.709

 Love to do that too

Buzz Knight:

00:48:34.989 – 00:48:35.969

 Sounds good Thanks for

taking a walk Jim I enjoyed it

Announcer:

00:48:39.76 – 00:48:48.209

Takin a walk with Buzz Knight is available on Spotify Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

Buzz Knight is an established media executive with a long history of content creation and multi-platform distribution.

After a successful career as a Radio Executive, he formed Buzz Knight Media which focuses on strategic guidance and the development of new original content.