Podcast Transcript
Announcer:
00:00:01.279 – 00:00:30.67
Welcome You’ve arrived at the takin a walk podcast where host Buzz Knight explores music history with industry insiders This podcast can be found at Apple Spotify I Heart the podcast Playground or wherever you get your podcast today Buzz talks with record producer extraordinaire Jack Douglas Jack is a legend who has worked with John Lennon Aerosmith Cheap Trick and so many others
Announcer:
00:00:31.139 – 00:00:34.259
enjoy Jack Douglas on taking a walk
Buzz Knight:
00:00:35.34 – 00:00:43.439
Well Jack how did you first know that uh music had sunk its meat hooks into you and would never let go
Jack Douglas:
00:00:43.959 – 00:01:05.22
I guess when I was about four or five years old you know my parents they listened to a lot of music They weren’t musical themselves but they listened to So there was always a ton of music in my house in the Bronx in our apartment I was I was totally into you know getting like
you know listening to how much is that doggie in the window And I also loved like I mean these are 78s I’m talking about I also loved like all of the story books that came out like Bugs Bunny or uh Stephen Tyler and I talked about this We had the same collection of the
and the Hair and um Bozo Under the Sea That was a favorite of both of ours So I was into music and storytelling at a very early age And um my dad uh worked in a freight yard in in Hunts Point in the Bronx
He decided that because uh they had a nice console in the living room that they listened to their music on My dad listened to opera and my mom listened to what was then called the Race Music Uh basically uh blues and R and B and uh so it was a good contrast Plus you know the pop stuff that was on the radio at the time big band and and uh Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra and all those folks
But uh my dad got a he got a hint that a uh
a train was coming in and on the one of the trains coming in from Chicago was uh a bunch of electronic equipment And so you know they tred regularly I mean that was like
part of the perks of working in a freight yard And he decided that he was gonna get me my own record player so that I could stop putting these records on their console in the in the living room And uh and so he went in the middle of the night and he got uh he saw Web core of Chicago on a box said record two figured said record players who stashed it
and he brought it home for my birthday I think it was maybe I was six or seven somewhere in there you know I don’t And anyway he put it under my bed and then came in to Wish me happy birthday And he said present under your bed I looked under and I pulled it out and unwrapped it And both my father and I were like what the hell is this It was a tape recorder It wasn’t um it wasn’t a record player It was a tape recorder
uh a web core a small one and and we got uh and we read the instruction manual and we we went down to Canal Street and bought a bunch of tape and
Jack Douglas:
00:03:35.139 – 00:03:57.389
and I started uh recording TV themes which I really loved off the television And there were all these great themes I love Lucy And you know I I remember every one of them so well a Costello and the uh I mean all these shows but I they’re they’re still going in my head Highway patrol dragnet
Jack Douglas:
00:03:57.94 – 00:04:23.869
I would record these things and and listen to them But I knew I was definitely in the music also Uh Also the uh the thing that I noticed and my parents noticed too is that they would take me to see movies that were way over my head because I was a kid but you went to the movies on a regular basis back in those days and I could come out of the theater and sing the the main themes to the movies
Jack Douglas:
00:04:24.19 – 00:04:29.799
the melody lines in the right key as well So they kind of knew something was going on
Jack Douglas:
00:04:30.32 – 00:04:56.609
And I would uh I would record street sounds that hang that we live near a an elevated subway and I would record the train going by and uh feedback and all kinds of weirdness that I like to stick the the uh microphone down My mom’s old vacuum cleaner tube and record those sounds and then uh and then listen to them back at at the slower speed
Jack Douglas:
00:04:57.209 – 00:05:18.809
And my dad once uh he said to me I I had had these funky mono headphones on and you know for like a radio anyway he said to me what are you listening to one day And I said oh I I’m making my own music dad He said oh let me listen I was listening pretty loud and he put them on it was the vacuum cleaner
Jack Douglas:
00:05:19.45 – 00:05:43.51
He threw threw it down He said he said that’s not music I said it is to me that’s music to me And so um he figured I’ve got this music thing going on and maybe a month or so later apparently a a uh a silver tone uh Sears acoustic acoustic guitar fell off a freight car
Jack Douglas:
00:05:44.089 – 00:05:52.869
and and he gave it to me along with a Mel Bay chord book and he said now you can make music and um and I learned how to play
Jack Douglas:
00:05:53.679 – 00:06:10.989
And so I was in it from uh real early and studied music in high school Went to a a high school that specialized in arts and science studied theory and composition and ended up playing in rock bands and I was off running
Buzz Knight:
00:06:11.679 – 00:06:21.079
You actually played in uh a folk band uh associated with Bobby Kennedy in 64 Tell me about that
Jack Douglas:
00:06:21.73 – 00:06:24.299
I I was writing his um
Jack Douglas:
00:06:25.13 – 00:06:32.739
campaign songs when he was running for the Senate I mean that was just an oddball thing I was you know I was
Jack Douglas:
00:06:33.489 – 00:06:36.69
I was really young 15 or 16
Jack Douglas:
00:06:38.0 – 00:06:49.549
and I was doing the thing in the village you know where you busk in the street or if you could get into a place where you you didn’t have to be over 18 So 18 was the drinking age then
Jack Douglas:
00:06:50.41 – 00:07:08.429
um I would get in and play for whatever you know basically uh traditional folk songs sing in them And uh this guy came up to me and and he said hey you write songs too And I said yes And he said uh how’d you like a job for the summer
Jack Douglas:
00:07:09.04 – 00:07:19.79
Oh by the way this particular guy came to a young democrats meeting that I was playing at was like you know at near NYU
Jack Douglas:
00:07:20.959 – 00:07:43.66
So I said how much Does it pay this summer job And he said well it doesn’t pay anything really But um you get to travel a bit and you’ll eat and you’ll have some fun Well that was uh you know playing these rallies for for JFKI I actually ended up playing the last one at Madison Square Garden following the rats
Jack Douglas:
00:07:44.369 – 00:07:59.779
So uh you know one of my claims to fame is I played at the garden the Old Garden But that was I think that was the Democratic National convention that was held that year That was a that was a good start for me Uh
Jack Douglas:
00:08:00.299 – 00:08:07.239
And I learned a lot about uh politics and turning traditional folk songs into camp songs
Buzz Knight:
00:08:07.79 – 00:08:18.22
You’ve masterly figured out the art of uh collaboration Uh Did you learn that when you went to the the Institute of of audio uh research there
Jack Douglas:
00:08:18.829 – 00:08:28.839
No no no no no not not at all Um Collaboration um began as soon as I got my own rock band together
Jack Douglas:
00:08:29.2 – 00:08:43.869
You know it was not gonna I made sure that the people who were in the band were were real contributors who create even though we were young these were guys that had most of them were older than me but they all had good ideas and and uh
Jack Douglas:
00:08:44.77 – 00:09:10.03
and then I went on the road after I came back from Liverpool I I went on the road for years and played with a ton of people uh from the Angels my boyfriend back and I would play either guitar or bass um play with Chuck Berry for a while Uh you know I toured I was I was on uh three different major labels um Columbia Epic and Bell
Jack Douglas:
00:09:10.89 – 00:09:40.849
as a writer and as an artist the last label that I was on was the uh was uh T neck and my band was being produced by the Isley Brothers And uh after that is where I made the decision to to go to the other side of the glass and and en en rolled in the Institute of audio research and also got a job at record plant as the Jat But they they both happened around the the exact same time
Jack Douglas:
00:09:41.409 – 00:09:57.729
It’s my day job I was a motorcycle messenger in Manhattan I was living in the East Village but that’s paid great money because I would I would ride that bike all through winter and it meant that the nights um I could I could gig with the band
Jack Douglas:
00:09:58.27 – 00:10:13.38
So it was a you know all I had to do was call up and say uh the dispatcher and say I’m on And I had this Norton Commando and in the winter I’d have knobby wheels on it so I could get around in the snow And in the winter it paid great money So it was like really cool
Buzz Knight:
00:10:13.969 – 00:10:20.03
But when you became the janitor you must have had your sights on becoming a recording engineer
Jack Douglas:
00:10:20.619 – 00:10:45.039
Well I I did uh in fact I wanted to be a producer as well and um and a composer and the funny thing was while I was the janitor at night uh I was uh also a client because I was scoring the original ABC after school specials um for for the producer Danny Wilson
Jack Douglas:
00:10:45.52 – 00:11:14.38
And um so he Danny’s still active That’s great But I I went to work producing music for his show which was the it was called Over Seven and it was the original ABC after school specials And so I at night I would be a client and um in the daytime I was the janitor but I was you know I would beg uh other engineers if I could just sit in on their sessions so I could learn between
Jack Douglas:
00:11:14.719 – 00:11:28.21
and I worked my way up from general worker Actually after janitor you just car stuff around and uh and record plant also ran a school for us you know guys that were on the way up
Jack Douglas:
00:11:28.669 – 00:11:49.28
So I learned a lot there and um I became a tape librarian and I went into the editing booth I was an editor then I was an assistant engineer doing tons of stuff you know working with great rock bands that were coming through record plan And also early mornings I was doing jingles for the
Jack Douglas:
00:11:49.859 – 00:12:10.299
Ford and Airlines and you know all those big commercials when you had the big orchestra dates and the rhythm section And I was also uh doing artists demos So I I did all of Billy Joel’s demos for him to get his deal at Columbia I did Patti labelle demos and these were four track
Jack Douglas:
00:12:10.57 – 00:12:30.239
So they would want to come in and listen to what it sounded like before they went in and and invested in the big rooms to to do it And uh that’s a great learning experience when you have to record all this stuff for track especially if you’ve got a big rhythm section that’s you know I was in a hurry It didn’t take me long Honestly
Jack Douglas:
00:12:30.75 – 00:12:47.09
they would let me at midnight they would let me come in and record whoever I wanted for free you know like the local bands and you know I really made my bones by bringing in groups and and recording them and learning how to do it Right
Buzz Knight:
00:12:47.739 – 00:13:10.95
What a fascinating time It must have been in that area It’s still a fascinating area that whole the whole scene Um and since this podcast is called taking a walk um I have to ask you even though we’re virtual So did you ever get sort of in a creative block where things were kind of jammed up And would you just go for a walk in the village to free your mind
Jack Douglas:
00:13:11.57 – 00:13:17.08
No No I didn’t have time for that at all Um uh
Jack Douglas:
00:13:17.919 – 00:13:32.359
no it would If I had a block I had to work it out while I was at behind the board but I mean I made some terrible blunders Uh uh I was recording uh Paddy labelle’s demos and
Jack Douglas:
00:13:33.21 – 00:13:47.53
the and the guy put these old boards the especially the four track boards were all tubes and they had giant transformers and the bass player And I thought man I’m doing this this demo sounds so good because there’s a full rhythm section
Jack Douglas:
00:13:48.539 – 00:14:01.7
and and her and you know I and I said and you have to do everything live You have to do your your reverb or your compression everything has to be done on the flight right away because there’s no going back to it
Jack Douglas:
00:14:02.219 – 00:14:03.51
And so um
Jack Douglas:
00:14:04.109 – 00:14:20.929
I’m doing this and I’m thinking wow I I I’m really good here and the bass player came in I couldn’t wait to play it for Patty because I thought she’s not even gonna have to do a master This is it Oh And the bass player came around behind me and he put his beer next to me I didn’t see it in the remote for the tape machine
Jack Douglas:
00:14:21.719 – 00:14:35.119
It was in between me and the remote for the tape machine and I went to hit the remote and I hit the beer and the beer went into the Transformers and flames shot out and literally I burned the board down
Jack Douglas:
00:14:35.65 – 00:14:58.289
The flames were coming out of the faders I destroyed the room that the board was gone And uh I got fired immediately The owner Chris Stone came and said you’re fired Patty labelle went to him and said it wasn’t his fault at all And Roy Sala who was the chief engineer quite famous guy
Jack Douglas:
00:14:58.83 – 00:15:09.78
he was my mentor Uh He said to Chris Stone he said why don’t we listen to the tape And because the tape was still up there he said let’s listen to the tape because if it’s good
Jack Douglas:
00:15:10.21 – 00:15:39.539
he will make more money for the studio than that board cost which was on its way out Anyway they listened to the tape And the next day Chris Stone called me up I was like oh my career is over How can I do So this is terrible Chris Stone called me up and he said well we decided to give you another chance And uh and he said but we’re gonna give you a pay cut from $65 a week to $60 a week I said fine
Jack Douglas:
00:15:40.059 – 00:15:54.63
So I you know II I got but you know there you you trip along the way for sure You know But yeah I never had time to go Uh I mean for me I was on the course that I wanted to be on
Jack Douglas:
00:15:54.989 – 00:16:13.89
I was learning by working as an assistant working on projects that had either lousy producers or really good ones And I would be taking notes on this works This doesn’t work And I was an assistant on American Pie and and I watched how
Jack Douglas:
00:16:14.609 – 00:16:20.859
all these bits and pieces of that song were edited together to make that masterpiece Now like that that works
Jack Douglas:
00:16:21.419 – 00:16:43.96
So I mean I worked with a lot of a lot of producers along the way as both an assistant and then as an engineer which I became like the rock guy probably because I played uh music rock for so long But um those not books really helped me understanding what worked with an artist and what didn’t
Buzz Knight:
00:16:44.929 – 00:16:58.7
So as you were in that recording you know engineer mode there I wanted to get your uh reaction to some folks that you worked with that were pretty amazing I’m gonna start with Miles Davis
Jack Douglas:
00:16:59.2 – 00:17:01.01
Well I I was uh
Jack Douglas:
00:17:01.789 – 00:17:11.79
I mean first of all he was great in the studio Not not at all be treated everybody great the fellow musicians
Jack Douglas:
00:17:12.448 – 00:17:30.65
the crew um mostly I I assisted on those sessions I assisted on Miles I assisted on Nina Simone because Jay Messina was the jazz guy and Jay would always bring me in to do these jazz dates
Jack Douglas:
00:17:31.13 – 00:17:44.25
And so um I got to you know I be working uh hand in hand with him on these great sessions But I was you know I a giant Miles fan John Coltrane fan and
Jack Douglas:
00:17:45.16 – 00:17:48.3
and I was you know I didn’t know what to expect
Jack Douglas:
00:17:48.819 – 00:18:17.14
you know you you always hear Miles turns his back on you And Miles is Miles was the sweetest guy in the studio because he understood that in the studio probably unlike a live performance that is a collaborative situation and the crew is important And so he was just uh really sweet and he loved Jay Masina because they wore the same shoe size And and Jay would always come in with like a really cool pair of shoes and and Miles would say Jay
Jack Douglas:
00:18:17.51 – 00:18:40.29
hey Jay I can’t do his voice but he he would ask Jay to pick him up a pair of those shoes when he was at the store and Jay would deliver him over to the his his uh brownstone on the west side near where Jay lives But he was great Nina Simone scared me uh working with Nina I would be you know putting the setting a mic and and her because she’d be singing and playing piano
Jack Douglas:
00:18:40.829 – 00:18:48.449
and she just looked at me like are you sure that’s in the right place And she give me a look and I go well I think it is
Jack Douglas:
00:18:49.16 – 00:18:58.06
It’s the fun stuff Um who else James Gang again I was insisting on James Gang’s um
Jack Douglas:
00:18:58.719 – 00:19:09.969
uh sessions Um they were brothers they brought the mother in one time I guess they were from Indiana or someplace like that Um the funny thing is
Jack Douglas:
00:19:10.51 – 00:19:36.52
you know I recently I’ve become really good friends with well in the last few years with Joe Walsh When I’m out in L A Uh I see him quite often um because he works with Ringo and I see Ringo quite often I got to talking to him and I said you remember that album that that uh you were doing that record plant James Gang And he said sure I said I was the I was the other engineer and he said you gotta be shitting me
Jack Douglas:
00:19:36.76 – 00:20:03.079
Well that’s crazy Yeah I said yeah that was me and that was uh Bill Simic was engineer producer I guess Bill went on to work with the Eagles In fact he invited me down to uh Miami to listen to when he had this motel that he had converted in Coconut Grove uh into a studio Um He can’t he invited me down to listen to what he was doing
Jack Douglas:
00:20:03.349 – 00:20:09.089
Yeah that was fun And uh those guys were very cool and very professional in the studio
Buzz Knight:
00:20:10.03 – 00:20:14.89
Another one that I love to mention is the one and only Alice Cooper
Jack Douglas:
00:20:15.54 – 00:20:21.67
Well uh that that was a pretty cool because I I loved working with Bob Ezrin
Jack Douglas:
00:20:22.3 – 00:20:22.989
Um
Jack Douglas:
00:20:23.92 – 00:20:34.01
Bob was a he was a funny cat He was and he is extremely talented musician and arranger and writer And um
Jack Douglas:
00:20:35.41 – 00:20:38.89
he was a guy that I learned both pro and con from
Jack Douglas:
00:20:39.42 – 00:20:40.219
um
Jack Douglas:
00:20:40.849 – 00:20:46.52
because he had a he had a uh um his talent was so supreme
Jack Douglas:
00:20:47.16 – 00:21:11.469
that his ideas were always good but there was never uh a lot of room for the for the ban in particular Alice’s ban their ideas It was like Bob laid down the law and that’s how you did it and they were used to that working with him And so I thought and I don’t think I can ever ever do it that way But um and you know I’m not
Jack Douglas:
00:21:11.699 – 00:21:20.75
as talented as Bob but I can work around it But a but Alice sessions were great and I worked on uh schools out and Billion Dollar Babies with Bob
Jack Douglas:
00:21:21.449 – 00:21:34.079
And then um after doing the dolls album the first album Bob came to me and he said you know you’re because Todd didn’t show up very much and I had a good relationship with the with the band
Jack Douglas:
00:21:34.65 – 00:21:41.869
We would we would keep that going And Bob told me he said you know you’re you’re producing this now as well You should be producing
Jack Douglas:
00:21:42.459 – 00:21:54.209
And so I’m gonna give you the next uh Alice album to produce because it’s the it’s the last group album And then Alice is going solo with me
Jack Douglas:
00:21:54.839 – 00:22:01.26
and he said I don’t like funerals And so you’re gonna produce it which uh which was Muscle of Love
Jack Douglas:
00:22:02.189 – 00:22:06.349
They put uh Jack Richardson in there with me too to keep an eye on me
Buzz Knight:
00:22:06.92 – 00:22:09.66
And what would bring your first encounter with cheap
Jack Douglas:
00:22:09.67 – 00:22:10.29
trick
Jack Douglas:
00:22:11.329 – 00:22:16.88
Uh That was uh I have relatives in Waukesha Wisconsin
Jack Douglas:
00:22:17.5 – 00:22:40.239
my brother-in-law He said to me you gotta come see this band that’s playing at the Sunset Bowl bowling alley And aha Right They’re really good And I thought God my brother-in-law’s taste of music is just terrible But what the hell I got nothing else to do So we went to the bowling alley and cheap trick was playing And they were I mean
Jack Douglas:
00:22:40.569 – 00:22:54.479
they knocked they knocked me out They were incredible Um I couldn’t believe what I was hearing and I had known about them because they were already making noise not signed but already making noise around the Midwest
Jack Douglas:
00:22:55.02 – 00:23:07.459
I told them that I right then and there I said II I think I can get you a deal and I’d like to produce you And they said OK so the next day I called up uh my palate Epic Records
Jack Douglas:
00:23:07.969 – 00:23:19.51
and said get out here and see this band and if you don’t sign them I’ll take them to the RC A and because my reputation with CBS Records which was Columbia and Epic
Jack Douglas:
00:23:20.03 – 00:23:43.4
because my relationship was good good with them He he came out and uh and they were signed to shortly after the Epic Records And shortly after that I was out there we did a a quick pre-production mostly they had so much material It was crazy an insane amount of material and it was just a matter of making sure it was recordable edited a little bit here and there
Jack Douglas:
00:23:43.839 – 00:23:50.52
You know it wasn’t like I had to do any cow writing with them at all They they were really self contained in that department
Jack Douglas:
00:23:51.03 – 00:24:03.349
I didn’t do very much arranging except maybe on the overdubs on things like Mando cello or I mean we knocked off I think 30 basic tracks in two weeks when we went into record play
Jack Douglas:
00:24:03.949 – 00:24:15.969
And uh and then I you know I said well these these songs will put on the back burner because I don’t think they quite fit on this album which the first album is a lot of social and political statements in it
Jack Douglas:
00:24:16.619 – 00:24:45.479
I thought we’re gonna go to college radio with this and we’ll put these other ones on the back burner I go go girls I want you to want me surrender We’ll put those on the back burner for the next record Uh Unfortunately the next record I was doing Aerosmith you draw the line that took a year to do so I never got to the to the second album I wish I had and I didn’t get back to them until but uh that proved to be a pretty good
Jack Douglas:
00:24:46.069 – 00:24:50.13
15 million records and still and still selling Tell
Buzz Knight:
00:24:50.14 – 00:24:52.27
me about your encounter with the who
Jack Douglas:
00:24:53.16 – 00:24:53.81
well
Jack Douglas:
00:24:54.489 – 00:24:56.41
who were coming in to do
Jack Douglas:
00:24:57.13 – 00:25:09.02
Uh I think it was called The Lighthouse Project or something like that And it wasn’t who’s next but it was the material that was going to make up who’s next And um
Jack Douglas:
00:25:10.54 – 00:25:28.839
um so they wanted to record all this material And the and they said give us your chief engineer they were digging around the northeast at the time Uh But give us your chief engineer And so the chief engineer was a guy named Jack Adams
Jack Douglas:
00:25:29.81 – 00:25:38.05
and he was not a rock engineer but he was the chief engineer He was an R and B guy and he didn’t like rock music very much at all
Jack Douglas:
00:25:38.979 – 00:25:40.469
And so um
Jack Douglas:
00:25:41.17 – 00:25:44.3
knowing that they put me on the date to assist him
Jack Douglas:
00:25:45.119 – 00:25:45.849
Um
Jack Douglas:
00:25:46.77 – 00:25:54.589
And so I see you know the equipment came into the into the room he all teeth drummed and
Jack Douglas:
00:25:55.329 – 00:26:04.78
I set up like I was setting up for a big rock day like mountain or you know one of those kind of dates where it’s gonna be heavy and loud and um
Jack Douglas:
00:26:05.65 – 00:26:14.43
individually mic all the Tom Toms and stuff that Jack normally would do because an R and B session is very different
Jack Douglas:
00:26:15.099 – 00:26:18.68
and then the band came in and um
Jack Douglas:
00:26:19.3 – 00:26:31.719
and I said let’s Jack Adams wasn’t there yet And I said you guys wanna roll something so I can get the the room totally set up And I’m like sure And so uh I rolled tape and they started jamming
Jack Douglas:
00:26:32.26 – 00:27:00.739
and they started jamming on baby Don’t do it don’t break your heart And I said to him hey do you mind if I get a friend of mine to come in and jam with you guys It was Leslie West who was in the next room and and so they said no we love Leslie West So I went and I got uh Leslie and um and he came in and he jammed I think that particular jam session is available Leslie West and the who playing Uh baby don’t do it
Jack Douglas:
00:27:01.38 – 00:27:25.489
Recorded It sounded really good Sounded like the who I got it all tuned up Um uh Jack came into the room finally uh I I love Jack Adams He was a Fabulous R and B guy and and later disco too He did uh but he came into the room and he said oh what is this And I said you know it’s the who He’s like who what who
Jack Douglas:
00:27:25.88 – 00:27:46.199
I’m like the last album Jack was Tommy It was unbelievable Huge Uh wasn’t into it that much They came into the into the booth and they said let’s hear that back What we just jammed So we know what it sounds like So um got to spun the tape backwards and um
Jack Douglas:
00:27:46.729 – 00:27:59.219
and they they listened to it and and Pete went over and franked it Now the big West Lake monitors in that room you know 500 watts on each side Fabulous sound
Jack Douglas:
00:28:00.079 – 00:28:12.969
He he cranked the monitors right up loud and I could see that Jack was very Jack I was very uncomfortable with that and he was like oh my God No Yeah And then they went back out in the room
Jack Douglas:
00:28:13.489 – 00:28:18.01
and um said to me I can’t I can’t do this
Jack Douglas:
00:28:18.53 – 00:28:32.65
while Kit Lambert was producing by the way it was a crazy maniac But I loved I loved watching him I learned a lot because he would conduct the band like it was an orchestra because his father was a very famous conductor in England
Jack Douglas:
00:28:33.18 – 00:28:40.75
So um Jack said to me I can’t do this This is this is awful There’s no groove there’s no soul
Jack Douglas:
00:28:41.4 – 00:28:52.209
So I said well you know you can get through it Jack don’t worry He said no I’m not gonna get through it at all You’re gonna get through it Uh He said yeah he goes I want you to go into the production room which was
Jack Douglas:
00:28:52.8 – 00:29:10.93
basically in the control room There was a wall He said call me up on the phone name at the at the uh board and tell me something terrible has happened that I will have to leave I said why don’t you just tell them something He goes no I need to to react to this
Jack Douglas:
00:29:11.569 – 00:29:18.55
So Jack Adams lived on a house boat and and up the 79th street Pier Hudson River
Jack Douglas:
00:29:19.199 – 00:29:28.729
So I called him up and I was really quiet You could hear me in the room if you dared to listen and the phone rang and Jack picked up But I said Jack
Jack Douglas:
00:29:29.359 – 00:29:45.939
he said yeah so I have something really terrible to tell you Now Pete Townsend was still in the room and and Jack Conner was obvious and he was loud and he went something terrible What happened Now Pete and Keith they’re looking at him
Jack Douglas:
00:29:46.359 – 00:30:08.579
and I say to Jack your houseboats on fire and it’s sinking in the Hudson River And then he repeated that my houseboats on fire and it’s stinking in that And then he kind of put in like in quotations I live in a house boat and then he said my dog he didn’t have a dog but he threw that in for a little extra stuff I have to go The other engineer will take over
Jack Douglas:
00:30:09.4 – 00:30:18.05
I took the reins The first song that we recorded was uh um again
Jack Douglas:
00:30:19.709 – 00:30:21.069
live vocals
Jack Douglas:
00:30:21.67 – 00:30:24.38
and uh it was hair raising
Jack Douglas:
00:30:25.14 – 00:30:48.069
and we recorded I 10 tracks Um at some point the front office heard that I was in charge and uh they were a little worried but uh they sent somebody down to keep an eye on me and they sent me an assistant and it was good We got to be really good friends with those guys And after the gigs
Jack Douglas:
00:30:48.339 – 00:30:56.339
they would say this would be like one o’clock in the morning and they’d go well now we’re gonna go out and have some fun Ok You’re going with us kid
Jack Douglas:
00:30:56.969 – 00:30:57.729
Ok
Jack Douglas:
00:30:58.28 – 00:31:11.689
So I would go out with them and we would meet at the uh Navarro Hotel which was on Central Park South small hotel boutique hotel They had the whole ninth floor which was maybe eight rooms
Jack Douglas:
00:31:12.76 – 00:31:22.819
This way it kept them away from you know regular clients And Keith and Pete had the two front suites which face Central Park beautiful
Jack Douglas:
00:31:23.66 – 00:31:28.51
And on the ninth floor now like this is a building that had high ceilings
Jack Douglas:
00:31:29.18 – 00:31:49.619
And so I would go there and uh we would meet in Pete’s room and then go out to some after hours place or just you know they knew all these spots I was a New Yorker I had no idea these places existed You know they get a lim a couple of limos and off We’d go But anyway every night I would go up there
Jack Douglas:
00:31:50.02 – 00:32:07.25
Keith I mean everybody came through the door into into Pete’s suite But Keith would open the window on his suite and and crawl across the ledge outside the building and then open up Pete’s window and climb in
Jack Douglas:
00:32:07.92 – 00:32:25.79
This is like nine very high floors and no one thought that was unusual except me Everyone was hey Keith what are we doing tonight And I’d be like oh my God that’s a little bit I I saw I ran to compete at SAR at a rehearsal just a few years ago
Jack Douglas:
00:32:26.31 – 00:32:30.52
He was uh coming to a meeting and he had a girl with him that he was producing
Jack Douglas:
00:32:31.31 – 00:32:35.13
and um I ran into him I say hey Pete I mean it’s been years
Jack Douglas:
00:32:36.319 – 00:32:58.459
I said remember me and Jack and he goes yeah Jack Douglas Oh yeah Wow it’s been a lifetime since I’ve seen you And I said yeah Yeah And he introduced me to the artist that he was with and he introduced me He said um 1000 years ago he said to her we worked with Jack and made him famous
Jack Douglas:
00:33:00.18 – 00:33:02.41
Thanks Thanks Pete Thanks
Jack Douglas:
00:33:03.26 – 00:33:06.719
It’s true It’s outstanding Yeah
Buzz Knight:
00:33:07.14 – 00:33:11.979
So then it’s it’s 1960 Excuse me 1971
Jack Douglas:
00:33:12.68 – 00:33:25.39
Well 69 is when I went to record plants So the very first project interestingly enough that I worked on as a general worker because we had the boof tapes was Woodstock
Jack Douglas:
00:33:25.9 – 00:33:41.689
Can you imagine So the the the van would pull up with the tapes from the show that were recorded live and then I would bring them to the various studios where the artists were fixing the tapes and you run into Hendrix and Crosby Stills and a
Jack Douglas:
00:33:41.699 – 00:33:46.579
all in there It’s amazing I’m like wow I’m in the right place here But yeah go ahead
Buzz Knight:
00:33:47.089 – 00:33:51.93
Well excuse me 71 you would engineer Imagine
Jack Douglas:
00:33:52.04 – 00:33:53.04
one of the engineers
Buzz Knight:
00:33:53.069 – 00:33:57.339
Tell me about your first of a lifetime encounter with John
Jack Douglas:
00:33:57.819 – 00:34:05.02
You know I first of all I was an incredible Beatles fan had been for years I mean just a
Jack Douglas:
00:34:05.569 – 00:34:18.138
just short of fanatic really loved them I even went to Liverpool in in 65 on a tramp steamer and and bought Rubber Soul the week it came out
Jack Douglas:
00:34:18.699 – 00:34:40.668
that that winter November or December bought it in Liverpool Um I got deported for a lot of reasons for playing in bands without a work permit from escaping from a ship blah blah blah Uh uh I made a lot of noise and I was in all the newspapers and even in the mirror in London I was stories about my adventures
Jack Douglas:
00:34:40.86 – 00:34:54.02
but I was on the front pages of the Liverpool news section in particular the Liverpool Echo which is the big newspaper in in Liverpool and I got deported and changed my
Jack Douglas:
00:34:54.57 – 00:35:01.169
really they won’t take any chance chances that I was gonna escape again And that was in 65
Jack Douglas:
00:35:01.81 – 00:35:06.29
So now go forward so many years and I’m at record plant working
Jack Douglas:
00:35:06.889 – 00:35:13.929
and John is down the hall in another room with everybody doing overdubs
Jack Douglas:
00:35:14.459 – 00:35:31.34
Uh and you know working on imagine uh he’d come over from England where they’d done a bunch of tracks and now they were doing some more tracks and doing all the overdubs Uh my job because I was a good editor was down the hall in another small room
Jack Douglas:
00:35:31.629 – 00:35:57.939
was to edit these uh some of these tracks and prepare them for for more for multi track because they were on eight tracks and they wanted to go to 16 track There were handwritten notes from John you know uh don’t edit the masters make sure you edit the copies that you’re gonna make or when you’re gonna edit here Anyway I was hearing most of the album before anybody else was hearing it because
Jack Douglas:
00:35:58.59 – 00:36:18.31
I I was editing and transferring uh about four or five days into this whole project The door opens and John comes into the room and nearly peed myself because I didn’t think I would be having contact with him I just thought I’m good enough having this gig as an editor
Jack Douglas:
00:36:19.209 – 00:36:47.76
and he sits down he says ok if I hang out in here so I’m just looking for a place that’s not so noisy I knew he was and I figured he was trying to get away from Phil who had a terrible reputation specter That is And so he sat on a couch on the other side of of the console So I only could see his feet up on the glass and cigarette smoke And II I said uh I’m editing your stuff and he was like yeah ok thanks So you’re doing a great job
Jack Douglas:
00:36:48.449 – 00:36:57.6
He just kind of blew me off and he sat there and smoked and about five minutes into this process of me working quietly
I said to him I’ve been to Liverpool
Jack Douglas:
00:37:01.189 – 00:37:08.689
and his head popped up and he said really He said where are you from And I said I’m born and raised in New York City
So why would you want to go to Liverpool Everybody there wants to come here including me and you know it’s not it’s not a great place not a tourist place I said well I was a musician and you know I really wanted to swim in the Mersey I wanted to know everything about the music scene there and which was really cool because I got to hang in the original caravan club which was amazing thing to do And back then
Jack Douglas:
00:37:36.909 – 00:38:00.0
So he looked at me and he said well how did that work out And I said well uh good and bad I said bad I got deported But good I made a lot of noise before I did And he looked at me and he said were you one of the crazy yanks that was in all the newspapers And I said yeah that was me This was me and my buddy I talked into going with me yet another guitar player He said
you know we looked at this pictures of these two guys on the front page of our newspaper the week that we put out an album that should have been just us all over the front page here is these do these two yanks making all this noise in Liverpool And I said yeah that was me And he said and in one of the pictures that was on the front page as my guitar Les Paul custom
He said to me right Well he remembered that because that made the impression on him He said to me you still have that last I said no it’s a long gone He said I can’t believe that all the places I walk into and there’s this guy I’m meeting now that was someone that you know we laughed about you know in Liverpool and did all this stuff He said WW what are you doing I said like I said I’m editing your stuff He goes you’re an engineer I said yes he goes OK you’re on the project
Jack Douglas:
00:38:52.659 – 00:39:15.919
Said Yoko is gonna know that there’s some deeper meaning in us meeting you know after a session or two he said where do you live And I told him in the village he said we do too We’re on Bank Street let me give you a ride home And then one time on the way down to the villages the only place where we can get a late bite to eat And I said sure I know a million places where I can get you in a back door
And suddenly he asked me for my phone number He called me up said I listen I have to go to this party and there’s gonna be all these people there It was Abby Hoffman in that crew He said just come with me because I don’t really know them and you can watch my back started hanging with them and we became friends And then he said to me listen uh
I want you to do these Yoko records OK So I met with Yoko and she said what makes you think you can do my records And I said to her because I was a really an avant garde John Cage fan and all these avant garde jazz guys And then I said to her because I don’t care if when you play the piano you inside it or outside of it
Jack Douglas:
00:39:59.01 – 00:40:01.54
And she said that’s good that’s good
Jack Douglas:
00:40:02.229 – 00:40:07.07
And so I did just all these records with her Sometimes John would be
Jack Douglas:
00:40:07.639 – 00:40:12.949
uh producing them or you’d be sitting next to me while we did them It was it was a a good run
Jack Douglas:
00:40:13.699 – 00:40:36.26
with her And because of that trust uh that’s why I ended up producing because they both trusted me while while I was doing The Muscle of Love album we were out out in L A which he told me to do He said come out to L A you you’re producer you can do it wherever you want and Warner’s is in L A So bring it out there I’m out there It was his last weekend And so uh
Jack Douglas:
00:40:36.77 – 00:40:49.55
I became one of the original Hollywood Vampires I was doing that now too Um You know I I frequently I drove the getaway car that was my gig get him out of trouble
00:40:50.51 – 00:40:57.33
Interesting and and and a long long relationship with him I miss him and I think the world is uh
Jack Douglas:
00:40:57.85 – 00:40:59.729
would be a different place that he lived
Buzz Knight:
00:41:00.81 – 00:41:05.05
If you could describe his creative process what would it be
Jack Douglas:
00:41:06.54 – 00:41:10.419
He worked on songs for months if not years
Jack Douglas:
00:41:11.209 – 00:41:35.709
he had a germ he would work on it and and um you know when you see that film he brought the he brought the the Jackson film he brought stuff to the studio to to work on Here’s something I have he always was preparing he was always writing I mean some of the songs on Double Fantasy were years old that he had demoed numbers of times And so um
Jack Douglas:
00:41:36.459 – 00:41:42.61
he was well prepared the thing that he he had no patience for lollygagging in the studio
you know which is why he Phil would want you know 50 takes where whereas
Jack Douglas:
00:41:51.27 – 00:42:17.51
for me and I would always have him do live vocals frequently Within the first five takes you had it and he knew it and I knew it and the musicians knew it as well It wasn’t And I was always a step ahead of him the whole time we were working And so he he loved that he he liked to be you know somebody was always prepared for him to do what he wanted to do And
I think that’s why we got along I I in the last few years before he passed away I became very good friends with Jeff Emerick
And um he’d be over my house for dinner We would do mixes together We had a lot of time when we talked about John and he said to me I wish I knew the John that you talk about because he knew that angry John apparently he could get very angry and the Beatle I I know that alcohol didn’t uh
Jack Douglas:
00:42:51.03 – 00:43:07.36
was not good for John at all It was kind of a he would get angry that I saw while we were in California He was just uh he was just amazing that whole summer We were working on that record and then later into the fall while we were doing uh walking into ice
you ran into these guys from uh Boston in 74 named Arrow Smith How many uh how many years were shaved off of your life from the beginning That ride with them
Jack Douglas:
00:43:21.409 – 00:43:22.61
10 years
Jack Douglas:
00:43:23.5 – 00:43:27.82
10 years were shaved off my life Not those years
Jack Douglas:
00:43:28.479 – 00:43:54.08
but later years I mean I’m 30 years sober but there’s a there’s a lot of uh you know as as their drug got used years got worse I mean I was always like the straight guy you know I thought to keep this session together when it was over when the session was over Maybe I smoke a joint um at when it was over But um
Jack Douglas:
00:43:55.03 – 00:43:57.58
yeah as the drug use got worse the
Jack Douglas:
00:43:58.169 – 00:43:59.58
they
Jack Douglas:
00:44:00.419 – 00:44:11.55
they exposed me to a few things that later in my life became a problem And then um so yeah I I lost some time but no none of it while I was working with them
Jack Douglas:
00:44:12.34 – 00:44:14.5
No How how often
Buzz Knight:
00:44:14.51 – 00:44:19.1
did crisis management uh enter into your job description working with them
Jack Douglas:
00:44:19.85 – 00:44:24.33
Uh It depends on what you call crisis management
Jack Douglas:
00:44:26.889 – 00:44:28.26
get your wings
Jack Douglas:
00:44:29.57 – 00:44:32.77
toys in the attic rocks They were all
they were all really creative periods for the band and and they welcomed my input so that I was like a member of the band We did months sometimes of pre-production
and it wasn’t till we were doing draw the line that it became
Jack Douglas:
00:44:53.389 – 00:45:02.86
became a problem because they would stay in there We were in a what had been a nunnery upstate New York in Westchester County actually
Jack Douglas:
00:45:03.409 – 00:45:10.11
And uh they all had their own rooms and frequently uh some of them wouldn’t come out of their rooms for three or four days
Jack Douglas:
00:45:10.699 – 00:45:20.419
That was the that was the crisis as far as working with them or having fights or not Not so much No Um
Jack Douglas:
00:45:21.3 – 00:45:34.639
you know I I I’ve always been the good politician You know my my thing is listen to the band 1st 1st of all you know my job is to make a band’s dreams come true you know not mine
Jack Douglas:
00:45:35.25 – 00:45:39.83
And you know they understood that that’s the way it was And so um
Jack Douglas:
00:45:40.37 – 00:45:46.85
although we didn’t have to talk about it that’s the way I approached all of that stuff with them We worked hard together
Jack Douglas:
00:45:47.36 – 00:45:54.75
you know I mean Stuart Steven would come in and say I could sing that better and I would say I don’t know if you can but if he said he could sing it better I went with it
Buzz Knight:
00:45:55.31 – 00:45:58.1
You co-wrote uh Kings and Queens didn’t you
Jack Douglas:
00:45:58.56 – 00:46:03.699
Yes But you see that’s at the point where the band wasn’t writing I mean
Jack Douglas:
00:46:04.75 – 00:46:32.07
I contributed a lot as a writer previous to that but I always thought that’s my job as a producer You know people told me many years later that was a big mistake But I don’t I don’t think so Uh Because now every producer is a writer You know it’s like you that’s where you get your publishing and then blah blah blah blah blah But at that point I had to start writing because they were losing their productivity
But I like Kings and Queens I think it’s oh
Buzz Knight:
00:46:34.87 – 00:46:37.219
I love that one I love that tune
Buzz Knight:
00:46:37.949 – 00:46:47.57
That’s a great one but so many great ones Oh let you know being in Boston for so long and part of the Boston scene you got a big fan of Aerosmith right here
Oh great Yeah I’m still a big fan Um uh The Peace Out Tour should be interesting
Jack Douglas:
00:46:55.409 – 00:47:02.169
uh When they were doing Vegas uh the residency in Vegas My son was in the band as a percussionist
Jack Douglas:
00:47:02.689 – 00:47:09.05
My son Colin is a Latin jazz guy A couple of Grammy nominations
Jack Douglas:
00:47:09.59 – 00:47:28.54
uh as for as a jazz artist But um Joe liked to work with him on his solo stuff And so uh when they did this residency He wanted him to play all the tambourines and Congas and bells And so that’s what he was doing Could sing too So
Buzz Knight:
00:47:28.55 – 00:47:30.179
what are you working on now Jack
Jack Douglas:
00:47:30.58 – 00:47:34.679
Uh Jeez So because I have a label
Jack Douglas:
00:47:36.05 – 00:47:42.219
Yeah Uh well the the first act that we signed was the Detroit youth choir
Jack Douglas:
00:47:43.02 – 00:47:51.969
Um and they of course were huge hits on America’s got talent twice They were huge hits And um
Jack Douglas:
00:47:52.649 – 00:48:10.78
and so I produced that record in Detroit called uh Rock Spell I call it it’s a Detroit rock band with this youth choir singing classic R and BS It’s available on our site And then the next artist I signed was Robin Taylor Xander
who’s Robin Xander’s son That album is out now we just dropped acoustic an acoustic version of uh high and low although the single version of it is already out and the whole record is available on every platform Uh Detroit youth choir won us a uh a gospel about two weeks ago won us a gospel version of the Grammys for the record that we did So that’s pretty cool And last week I was in Los Angeles
uh talking with Disney because Disney has picked up the Detroit youth choir for a miniseries called choir
Jack Douglas:
00:48:49.649 – 00:48:53.28
And so we have the record and they have the
the miniseries That’s that could be a good combination Uh I’ve been doing a lot of film scores
I’ve got
on a person personality crisis I just worked with Martin Scorsese and Ron Howard on personality crisis Uh one night only which is on Showtime Now
Jack Douglas:
00:49:15.909 – 00:49:38.239
I’ve got uh two films going into this the festival circuit that I composed The music for uh one is called the Trust and love contemporary rom rom com takes place in Malibu and the other one is the Carol Doda story which is the a documentary about the first topless dancer in San Francisco
Jack Douglas:
00:49:38.83 – 00:50:04.28
which is cool I just last night watched um the completed film with my score and it it’s pretty cool But um it’s amazing how much footage they have of that that period uh that she was you know what was happening in San Francisco from 1964 through the early seventies a lot in San Francisco was it was amazing
Uh And then um I’ve got an artist named Ellie Lowe That is uh I’ll be in the studio in Los Angeles with her in this coming month producing her She’s really amazing She’s out of Atlanta
and then my partner on uh we have two labels under one umbrella So I have confidential records in New York City dot com NY that’s Confidential records NYC dot com It’s a good website too Um And my partner
under the same umbrella uh is to make records and uh he’s a little bit different than me signing members of Ghost and
he’s got a group called Silver Plains
It’s a little harder rock than what I usually do
Well I produce outside acts Um I have a request for some a group in England called Xander and the Pirates I might I may do that I may do it And uh and I today got a a message from a guy who has since we were speaking of the who has the license for all of this Uh he has all this ant whistle uh incomplete material
that the family is licensed to him to complete So that could be interesting I started listening to it today
you know uh that’s keeping me very busy all of this I mean the label keeps me really busy and and on the go all the time you know you know people said you going you know I should retire What am I gonna do You know I’m qualified to be the bag boy at stopping shop even though right right up on the wall up there You see him
John Jack Douglass Doctor of Music It is I got it right up there on the wall but uh that’ll get you a bad boy job and now there aren’t any bad boy jobs like because so I made it and got pack at yourself So I would basically be unemployed So uh I like what I’m doing
Buzz Knight:
00:52:07.889 – 00:52:21.85
I am so grateful for uh our friend Drew Lane for connecting us out of Detroit and so glad that you’ve been on taking a walk Thank you for the stories and for the music Jack Douglas Amazing You’re
Jack Douglas:
00:52:21.86 – 00:52:24.11
very welcome Good to see you
Announcer:
00:52:24.929 – 00:52:33.439
taking a walk with Buzz Knight is available on Spotify Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
About The Author
Buzz Knight
Buzz Knight is an established media executive with a long history of content creation and multi-platform distribution.
After a successful career as a Radio Executive, he formed Buzz Knight Media which focuses on strategic guidance and the development of new original content.
