A walk in music history at The Country Music Hall of Fame

Speaker 1:

Takin’ A Walk with Buzz Knight.

Paul Kingsbury:

Glad you’re here with us at the Country Music Hall of Fame and Museum this morning.

Buzz Knight:

Well, Paul Kingsbury, managing editor of the Country Music Hall of Fame, I am so grateful to be here with you.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, we’re going to have fun. We’re going to take a walk through country music history with some nice side trips. The first side trip we’re going to start is our exhibit on a Country Music Hall of Fame member, famous Grand Ole Opry star, Bill Anderson, who has been a force in country music since the late 1950s. And you can see Bill worked closely with us. You can see all the photos he shared with us in here, of him with his band, him as a young high school pitching star in Georgia.

And you can see how we do these things when we feature a Country Music Hall of Fame member like Bill Anderson. You get all of this interesting memorabilia. His first album that he did for Decca Records, the typewriter that he used when he was doing songwriting lyrics and answering fan mail, guitars, eye-popping costumes owned by Bill Anderson.

Buzz Knight:

Paul, eye-popping costumes is an understatement. I love these colors here. This stage where his… A vivid purple, I would say.

Paul Kingsbury:

That’s right.

Buzz Knight:

Right?

Paul Kingsbury:

And here, we’ve got one that’s a bright green with quill pens as… The motif is quill pens all over it because, of course, Bill Anderson is an amazing songwriter who’s written hits for everybody, including gave Connie Smith her first hit, first number one hit. James Brown, Aretha Franklin, George Strait. Goodness gracious. Brad Paisley and Alison Krauss, Whiskey Lullaby. I mean, Bill Anderson has written for everybody.

Buzz Knight:

How would I look in the purple outfit? Just curious.

Paul Kingsbury:

Very dapper. Very dapper. It looks just about your size. You and Bill Anderson are close.

Buzz Knight:

It’s amazing.

Paul Kingsbury:

And because Bill was so instrumental in Connie Smith’s early career, we’ve got a costume, a beautiful dress from Connie Smith, and records and things, awards for Connie. And you can see some of Bill’s sports memorabilia. He’s a huge baseball fan. Big Atlanta Braves baseball fan, because he’s from Georgia.

Buzz Knight:

And he embraced the nickname Hillbilly.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, I would say-

Buzz Knight:

Bill Hillbilly Anderson, it’s said.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, early, but eventually, he got the nickname Whispering Bill, because he has that breathy singing voice. And most people, if they’re going to nickname him, call him Whispering Bill.

Buzz Knight:

I won’t call him Hillbilly then.

Paul Kingsbury:

He won’t mind. He will answer to it. He will answer to it. So anyway, he continues to be active as a songwriter, as an artist. You can see him regularly on the Grand Ole Opry. So this is our Bill Anderson Exhibit. And-

Buzz Knight:

Where’s he living now, Paul?

Paul Kingsbury:

He lives here in Nashville.

Buzz Knight:

Okay, got it.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. And he was very generous with the exhibit and has been proud to take his friends and family through it.

Buzz Knight:

Well, he should be. Proud to be here.

Paul Kingsbury:

All right. You see, we have good crowds today in the museum. And we’re going to… I’ll tell you what, we’ll take a little detour again just before we get into our main walkthrough history, because we have a beautiful exhibit on Martina McBride. And just as with the Bill Anderson Exhibit, she was very cooperative.

So get this, she was singing with the family band when she was just a little kid. There’s a photo of Martina. Look at her. She’s the little kid on the left there holding a microphone. That little girl is Martina, and her dad is standing beside her with the Telecaster guitar when-

Buzz Knight:

That’s fabulous.

Paul Kingsbury:

… she was growing up in Kansas.

Buzz Knight:

Wow. Love that.

Paul Kingsbury:

And this is all her childhood stuff. This is one of her childhood stage costumes. Look how tiny she is.

And then before she became a country music star, she was in a band back in Kansas called The Penetrators. And she said she had no idea that might have any meaning beyond, “We’re going to penetrate you with our music,” which is so great.

Buzz Knight:

That’s awesome.

Paul Kingsbury:

It’s a little naive.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Her wedding dress.

Buzz Knight:

So Paul, when an artist collaborates with you on an exhibit and goes back into their archives, do they express the process of them going through their archives?

Paul Kingsbury:

Yes. Yes.

Buzz Knight:

Is it something they always embrace, or sometimes is it a little bit odd for them or…

Paul Kingsbury:

Most of them are very eager to share their memorabilia, their costumes, their instruments, their awards with the fans. For some artists, just because of how busy they are, it’s harder than for others. But we’ve found once they agree to do the exhibit with us, they’re very cooperative. Some are very hands-on, personally like, “Here, let me show you what I’ve got.” Others stand back to say, “Well, what do you think you want?” And then they see what they have, or they turn it over to their assistants to help us go through storage areas and things like that.

Buzz Knight:

Got it.

Paul Kingsbury:

So this is our permanent exhibit, Sing Me Back Home. It starts with the earliest commercial country music of the 1920s. So we’ve got people featured here, like DeFord Bailey, the first great black star of country music. And there’s his harmonica and his megaphone that he used on the stage of the Grand Ole Opry. He’s now a member of the Country Music Hall of Fame. The Blue Sky Boys who played guitar and mandolin.

Buzz Knight:

Wow. Beautiful.

Paul Kingsbury:

And then we just move on through history. I will point out one interesting thing that you may have noticed over here, Buzz. And that is to show people the core of what we do, the Country Music Hall of Fame has exposed our archives. There’s our audio lab where we restore historic country recordings of various kinds and either put them in our archive or share them with the public in commercial recordings. You can see books and things over there in that compact shelving.

Even though there’s an exhibit down there, which is Chris Stapleton, which we’ll see in a bit, there’s more archival space beyond that. I mean, this is the premier research and collection center of country music in the world. We have the most country music recordings in our library of any place in the world. More than 200,000. From Edison cylinders all the way up to, obviously, CDs, and of course, we’re collecting MP3s and things like that. But we’ve got more than 500,000 photographs, films and videos. More than 1,900 costumes, more than 500 instruments. I mean, it’s an incredible repository.

Buzz Knight:

So when you collaborated with Ken Burns on the PBS amazing series, did he have access to some of this?

Paul Kingsbury:

He was able to access some of it. Now, I’ll tell you that at that time, I was actually working for another organization. I’ve had two stints at the Country Music Hall of Fame. I worked here from 1985 to 2002, then I went off and did freelance writing and other things, and I came back two years ago. So actually, the seven years that I worked on the Ken Burns Country Music series, I did that as a freelancer. But I do know from working with Ken and his team that for some things, they came to the Country Music Hall of Fame to get those. The Hall of Fame wasn’t the only repository they went to, but some things came-

Buzz Knight:

Got it.

Paul Kingsbury:

… from here.

Buzz Knight:

What was that experience like for you?

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, the best part working with Ken Burns was, in addition to reviewing scripts and helping them do interview questions, the best part was about a year and a half before the series came out, he flew all of the consultants up to his compound in New Hampshire, to Walpole, New Hampshire, to view the rough cuts of each episode. So every day, we would view two episodes, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, with a lunch break in between. We would view them, everyone in the room would comment on what’s good, what’s bad. And Ken Burns is so democratic in that he will make sure he gets everyone’s opinion in the room.

Buzz Knight:

Wow, that’s great.

Paul Kingsbury:

It was fabulous.

Buzz Knight:

That’s great. Great process.

Paul Kingsbury:

And he took our suggestions to heart. So here’s some people you may have heard of, Buzz. Here is a costume from Hank Williams, the great Hank Williams, along with his boots. Eddy Arnold. Minnie Pearl’s costume is over there. Over in this case to your left, you see singing cowboys memorabilia from people like Roy Rogers and Tex Ritter and Gene Autry.

Buzz Knight:

All of greatness.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, it really is. And we move through history, walking along this corridor. We see people from the 1950s, Hank Snow. Lefty Frizzell has that fringe costume right there.

This is pretty cool. So in this section, we introduce people to rockabilly. So we’ve got this film. There’s Wanda Jackson that you can hear on the audio. Great female rockabilly.

Buzz Knight:

She’s rocking.

Paul Kingsbury:

She is. And you’ll see, in the course of this little film, you see several other prominent rockabilly performers. This, of course, was a phenomenon that happened in the mid 1950s, and Elvis was a big catalyst in this. And along with it, we have a whole case of rockabilly memorabilia, Wanda’s stage dress, Johnny Cash’s Air Force uniform before he got into music, Everly Brothers’ guitars, Elvis’ jacket.

Buzz Knight:

Have you ever got to walk through with an artist?

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. Several years ago, I walked through with Buck Owens. Buck was very impressed. What, I think, he liked best, besides seeing his own stuff in here, was Buck liked the fact that we’re not Nashville-centric in the story we tell. We tell the story of all of country music across the country. So there’s a heavy component of California country in our museum here. There’s one of Buck’s red, white, and blue guitars.

Buzz Knight:

Sure.

Paul Kingsbury:

Along with Merle Haggard. So Buck was happy to see that. It was really pleasing.

And speaking of Merle Haggard, when we had our Bakersfield exhibit downstairs, where you’ll go, that’s where the LA Country-Rock Exhibit is now, Merle Haggard came through. And interestingly, more than seeing his own memorabilia, Merle was really touched to see memorabilia from his ex-wife, Bonnie Owens, whom he worked with for many years, and Bill Woods, a guy he worked with very early on, and Tommy Collins, another friend of his from Bakersfield. So it’s interesting to see how different artists react. But Buck and Merle were both very pleased.

Buzz Knight:

That’s awesome. It must have been quite a thrill for you walking through with them.

Paul Kingsbury:

With Buck. And you know what? He’s taller even than he looks on stage. Buck was about yea tall.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, I’m holding my hand like six inches over my head.

Buzz Knight:

Taller than us.

Paul Kingsbury:

Taller than us.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

So two of our famous cars here, Elvis Presley’s solid gold Cadillac, and this is Webb Pierce’s Nudiemobile, customized by Nudie the rodeo tailor. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen this, Buzz.

Buzz Knight:

No, I haven’t.

Paul Kingsbury:

But it’s really something. You can tell folks what kind of things they’re seeing on it.

Buzz Knight:

Oh my God. I mean, this, first of all, has in the trunk, there’s a rifle.

Paul Kingsbury:

There’s a rifle strapped to the-

Buzz Knight:

There’s an actual rifle strapped.

Paul Kingsbury:

Strapped to the top of the trunk. There are horses on the back bumper. You see silver dollars studded all in the leather upholstery. And there’s some fine leather on here. There’s a saddle in the middle console between the two front seats. Pistols on the door handles.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah, this is a car for a shy individual.

Paul Kingsbury:

That’s right, like Webb Pierce was.

Buzz Knight:

Right?

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. Webb Pierce would routinely tell everybody he was the best. And in the 1950s, nobody had more number one country hits than Webb Pierce.

Buzz Knight:

You’ve got to be confident.

Paul Kingsbury:

He was. He was.

Buzz Knight:

Quite a car. I’d love to take that for a spin.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, absolutely. So this is a section of our museum where we feature some of… We call it the Precious Jewel. We feature some of the most important instruments in country music. Jimmie Rodgers’ Martin guitar, Mother Maybelle Carter’s Gibson L-5, Bill Monroe’s mandolin, the father of bluegrass. And as we tell the story here, in 1985, someone broke into his house and smashed that mandolin into a lot of tiny pieces. But the Gibson company was able to take those tiny pieces, some as big as a matchstick, and glue them all back together. And you know what? After they fixed it, Bill played that mandolin till he died.

Buzz Knight:

Oh my God. There is hope in the world, right?

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. I mean, you would never know that that got smashed-

Buzz Knight:

Wow.

Paul Kingsbury:

… to pieces.

Buzz Knight:

What a great story.

Paul Kingsbury:

The famous Earl Scruggs of Flatt and Scruggs.

Buzz Knight:

Yes.

Paul Kingsbury:

His banjo. And his partner, Lester Flatt, his Martin D-28 guitar. And of course, the famous Hank Williams, who also had a Martin guitar.

Buzz Knight:

Did Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs, do you know if they got along as a pair?

Paul Kingsbury:

They were good friends for 20 plus years. But what happened was they wanted to go in two different musical directions. Earl Scruggs, with his sons, wanted to explore things like country rock. Lester was like, “We’ve got to keep this very bluegrass and very country.” So they split up. And of all people, do you know who Marty Stuart is?

Buzz Knight:

Yes.

Paul Kingsbury:

So Marty Stuart, who’s in the Country Music Hall of Fame, as a 13-year-old, went to work for Lester Flatt in his bluegrass band.

Buzz Knight:

Wow.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yes. So Marty’s been learning for a long time.

Buzz Knight:

Wow. But they separated, but they still remained friends.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, they were cordial. They weren’t angry. I mean, it got to the point when they got to the late ’60s, where Earl said, “Yeah, I want to do this stuff with my sons. I want to play newer rock-influenced songs,” and Lester said, “I’m not playing that.” So they just split. But it wasn’t angry.

Buzz Knight:

Okay.

Paul Kingsbury:

And this is a whole section where we focus on many of the behind the scenes studio musicians who contribute so much to the music. And I’m sure you will have heard of some of these people. I’m not sure all of your listeners will have. But Jerry Douglas.

Buzz Knight:

Definitely.

Paul Kingsbury:

Amazing Dobro player.

Buzz Knight:

Yes.

Paul Kingsbury:

Don Rich, the right-hand man of Buck Owens, playing lead guitar and singing harmonies and leading the band. Henry Strzelecki, who played on so many sessions, played bass. Who else have we’ve got? We’ve got some instruments over here.

Buzz Knight:

I mean, these guys are often unsung heroes, right?

Paul Kingsbury:

They are, but these are the guys who make the noise on 16th Avenue. Anyway, so you probably want to see… So we’ve got a Florida Georgia Line exhibit here.

Buzz Knight:

Yes.

Paul Kingsbury:

This exhibit has been open almost a year on Florida Georgia Line. It will close in January, replaced by a new one. But you can see we’ve got some great stuff from Tyler Hubbard and Brian Kelley.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

It goes back to their childhood. We’ve got childhood photos, childhood memorabilia, on up through their becoming big hit artists about 10 years ago with Cruise.

And I’ll tell you, we have, in our theaters, we frequently have museum programs with the artists that we feature in these exhibits. For instance, we saw Martina McBride’s exhibit. On November 1st, we’ll have a museum program with Martina McBride and songwriters she’s collaborated with. I went to the program that Florida Georgia Line did when we opened this exhibit, and let me tell you. So it opened with an interview and then they performed. And sometimes people think that with these newer artists like Florida Georgia Line, that they don’t really make their own music. I’m here to tell you it was those two guys, Brian and Tyler, with a small band, drums, bass, keyboard, electric guitar. They sounded awesome.

Buzz Knight:

I bet they did.

Paul Kingsbury:

They were great. And the harmonies were real.

Buzz Knight:

Have you run across any country artists that did not have a respect for the history?

Paul Kingsbury:

No. I mean, I think they all have some kind of-

Buzz Knight:

They all do.

Paul Kingsbury:

But-

Buzz Knight:

They all do.

Paul Kingsbury:

… they all know of it in various degrees, right? Because they all come at the music from different angles. Well, like we were just looking at Florida Georgia Line. So in addition to them being influenced by country, they were influenced by Christian worship music, by rap. So they said, from the stage during their program, how honored they were to have an exhibit at the Country Music Hall of Fame, and honored to be in the company of so many greats who’ve come before them. But it doesn’t mean that they know the full history. But hey, it’s here for them if they want to encounter it. We tell it in great depth. But yeah, I’ve never encountered a country music artist who had no respect for the history.

Buzz Knight:

When did you know in your life that you were going to be sort of… You’re a managing editor, but you’re really a historian of sorts as well, an archivist. When did you know this would be your passion in your life?

Paul Kingsbury:

I didn’t know that for a while. I knew in high school and college, I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to do research and writing. So I was a very young writer when I found out about this position at the Country Music Hall of Fame in 1985. I guess it was 1984 when I was finding out about it and applied for it.

What happened was I’ve always been a huge music fan, and I had a small country music collection, but I wasn’t knowledgeable. So I interviewed with the current CEO of the Country Music Hall of Fame, Kyle Young, in 1985, and we had a very good interview. Well, I was frank. I said, “I am not a country music expert. I’ve got a half dozen country music albums, Waylon & Willie, Hank Williams’ Greatest Hits. I’m not an expert.” He said, “If you’re interested and you care about music and you want to learn, being here is like being in a graduate program in country music history.” He said, “We’ve got the experts already. We can bring you along if you care to learn.” I said, “I definitely care to learn. This is part of Nashville. I live in Nashville. It’s part of American history.” So I will say that every day’s a learning experience, but I’ve been learning now about country music since 1985 in a serious way.

Buzz Knight:

What a grateful thing.

Paul Kingsbury:

I’m definitely grateful. Yeah.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah, wow. Wow.

Paul Kingsbury:

So we’ve told you a little bit about Western Edge: The Roots and Reverberations of Los Angeles Country-Rock. So we just opened this a couple of weeks ago. Major exhibition. And we’ll take a quick zoom through it. You probably will have some questions, but we wanted to remind people, so we’re focusing on the 1960s through the ’80s, but with this little case here, with a beautiful costume by Nathan Turk. He made this for Rose Maddox of the Maddox Brothers and Rose, and guitars for Joe Maphis and his wife Rose Lee Maphis, who played on Town Hall Party out in LA. This shows us the foundations of country rock and country music in LA before all these very rock-influenced people got involved.

And another little precursor we have is all of this is going to lead us to Dwight Yoakam. So here’s a Dwight Yoakam costume from the mid-’80s, when he was breaking out. And we feel like this is a pretty good quote.

Buzz Knight:

“On the Pacific Coast, there are fewer shackles on tradition. There is a decided willingness to take a chance on new ideas,” attributed to Henry Dreyfuss, pioneering American industrial designer and author. What a great quote. Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, and so this is all about people bringing interesting ideas about country music to rock and rock to country music and what you get. So here’s the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and a TV photo. Dwight Yoakam does our introductory film. And then we do a little walk through this history of country rock. It’s bubbling up from bluegrass on the West Coast. Look, can you see who that is? Do you know? Chris Hillman.

Buzz Knight:

Chris Hillman.

Paul Kingsbury:

The Byrds.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah. Chris Hillman before he had that big sort of afro cut, if you will.

Paul Kingsbury:

That’s right. Chris Hillman in the early ’60s, before he gets involved with the Byrds, The Flying Burrito Brothers, and Gram Parsons, before he goes on to lead the Desert Rose Band.

Buzz Knight:

I did come through this exhibit in preparation for seeing you, and I have to tell you, there’s so many people in this exhibit, and you’ll point them out, that are really unsung heroes for the movement of country LA music.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. Well, I’ll say so people who really love the music of this era, the late ’60s into the ’70s, Clarence White, one of the main unsung heroes, incredible guitar player who came out of bluegrass. There’s his stage costume and there’s his Telecaster. People are still trying to learn how to play like Clarence White did. Unfortunately, he was killed by a drunk driver who ran into him when he was loading out gear after a gig-

Buzz Knight:

Wow.

Paul Kingsbury:

… in the ’70s. But yeah, his music lives on. Now, I know you know this guy.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Rick Nelson. And here we go, the famous Garden Party album with the jacket he wore on it, with the Les Paul guitar he was holding, with his manuscript for writing the song, Garden Party.

Buzz Knight:

That’s sensational. He’s a big fan of that one for sure.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. And there he is. There’s Rick with his band.

Buzz Knight:

Handsome Rick. I love this photo here on the wall of Doug Weston’s Troubadour. And it looks like it takes you back to that moment.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. So one reason why we feature The Troubadour here is it was one of those key flashpoints for LA country rock, for country musicians, rock musicians coming together, kind of experimenting on stage, coming up with new combinations of music. So we’ve got a little feature on The Troubadour there.

Buzz Knight:

Love it.

Paul Kingsbury:

And I guess you saw Mike Nesmith. Many people know him from the Monkees, but he also was a huge country rock pioneer as both a Monkee and as a solo artist. And what do you think of that costume, Buzz?

Buzz Knight:

I would look good in that one for sure. All right, let’s play a little trivia. I know you know the answer.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, we’ll see.

Buzz Knight:

What was his mother responsible for?

Paul Kingsbury:

White out.

Buzz Knight:

There you go.

Paul Kingsbury:

White out. In the old days, old guys like us used to use it to clean up typing mistakes. So he was kind of a… Wasn’t his trust fund, I guess. But he came from a lot of money. But you know what? He didn’t act like it. He just wanted to make great music.

Buzz Knight:

That’s right. Can we get Paul a T-shirt for winning the trivia question? Yeah. Hi, Byrds.

Paul Kingsbury:

Excuse me. So here’s a photo of the Byrds. Chris Hillman down there, his buddies in the Byrds up top.

Buzz Knight:

Wow, this is interesting.

Paul Kingsbury:

Isn’t it?

Buzz Knight:

So Chris Hillman took this picture, huh? Wow.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, it’s courtesy-

Buzz Knight:

Courtesy. Sorry.

Paul Kingsbury:

So he owns it. Somebody gave it to Chris, probably, but there he is. There’s Roger McGuinn, Gene Clark, David Crosby. Many people know him from Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young. Michael Clarke on drums.

Buzz Knight:

And Roger McGuinn, God love him, still out playing these days.

Paul Kingsbury:

He’s amazing.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

He’s amazing.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah, sweetheart too.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah.

Buzz Knight:

Some of that here too.

Paul Kingsbury:

We move on through history and you see things like Gram Parsons, The Gram Parsons Show. His protege, Emmylou Harris, her costume, her famous guitar with the inlaid rose.

Buzz Knight:

People, I remember when I first heard of Gram Parsons, spoke about him in almost like reverential terms. There was like a mystique about him for sure.

Paul Kingsbury:

And I think it was… I mean, Emmylou talks that way about him. It’s that he was one of the first to get there and say, “There’s a way to pull country and rock together that has integrity from both.”

Buzz Knight:

Yes.

Paul Kingsbury:

And he was so passionate about country music. And he instilled that passion in Emmylou Harris for sure. And she carried the torch after he passed away.

Buzz Knight:

And she’s still carrying it.

Paul Kingsbury:

She still is. She still is. So stuff, we’ve got wonderful memorabilia here from the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, as well as Poco. You see Jeff Hanna’s stage costume here. Richie Furay of Buffalo Springfield and later Poco, there’s one of his stage costumes.

Buzz Knight:

What was so interesting about this music of this era and many of these artists, but in particular, we talk about Poco, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, coming out of what was called AOR radio, album-oriented rock, where I started. These bands became integral to that format.

Paul Kingsbury:

They did. They did. Yeah, I mean, I think this music that we feature here for a lot of baby boomers is some of the soundtrack of their lives.

Buzz Knight:

Absolutely.

Paul Kingsbury:

And it turned some of them on to country music, turned some of them on to different kinds of rock music.

Buzz Knight:

Well, it’s funny. So there’s people to this day that still go, when you talk about country, “Well, I don’t know if I like country.” And then I did this to someone the other day. I said, “Let me ask you a question. Do you like this band called the Eagles?” And they were like, “Yeah.” I said, “Well, then consider yourself someone who likes country.”

Paul Kingsbury:

The Eagles hit the country charts as well as the pop charts. They took a lot from country music. And of course, they’re featured in here. We’ve got this case. We’ve got things that pertain to Linda Ronstadt, to the Eagles, to songwriter J.D. Souther, who wrote a lot with the Eagles, because he’s a good friend of theirs. And we-

Buzz Knight:

Well, look at here, this picture from Joshua Tree National Park of the Eagles, photo by Henry Diltz. I had Henry on Takin’ A Walk when I went to-

Paul Kingsbury:

I’ve got to hear that one.

Buzz Knight:

… LA. Henry told me the story about they were up until 2:00 in the morning, I think, at probably The Troubadour, I’m guessing, and let’s just say they were getting into some mischief, a little bit of hallucinogens, possibly. And they drove out there, and he described it in this magical way where it just sounded like they just had pure joy out there, laughing, being silly, taking photos. And Henry’s key was he wasn’t really a photographer in the true sense, he was just a friend of theirs.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, he was a great photographer. He still is a great photographer.

Buzz Knight:

He sure is.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, and some of the song manuscripts we have here from J.D. Souther are of big hits that the Eagles had. New Kid in Town. We’ve got the manuscript up there. A Heartache Tonight, The Best of My Love, the song manuscripts are right there in front of you.

Buzz Knight:

Oh man, some of my favorites. This is a great exhibit.

Paul Kingsbury:

Right there.

Buzz Knight:

Oh man. Takes your breath away, all that music, what it means.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, it really does. It really does. And here was a Telecaster guitar. Here’s a Telecaster guitar that Bernie Leadon of the Eagles played on a lot of their hits. And that whole mechanism back there is something we call a B-Bender, which allows a guitar player, by just pulling down on the strap, it pulls a mechanism that pulls a string and gives you a little bit of a sound of a steel guitar on a regular electric guitar. Now, the guy who pioneered that was Clarence White, that we talked about earlier, but Bernie got into that sound too.

Buzz Knight:

You a musician at all?

Paul Kingsbury:

I play guitar. Yeah.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. I don’t play guitar like Bernie or Clarence White, but I play.

Buzz Knight:

But you play.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. And now we’re carrying it forward into the ’80s, and you see things like the Desert Rose Band, which Chris Hillman led. Chris Hillman, that we saw back in those bluegrass bands back there, who was in the Byrds.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Chris Hillman led the Desert Rose Band. There he is on stage with his guitar player, John Jorgenson.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Rosie Flores, big in the LA scene in the 1980s, and still going strong. I just saw her at a local festival. She was great.

Buzz Knight:

Wow.

Paul Kingsbury:

Some of those bands that some people were calling cowpunk, like Rank and File and Lone Justice, are featured here. Big in the 1980s. Dwight Yoakam, of course, broke out of LA in a big way.

Buzz Knight:

I always loved Lone Justice and Maria McKee’s lead singing there.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, she did a nice video… We did more than 40 hours of video interviews as research for this exhibit. But also, we’re showing portions of those interviews on video screens around the exhibit. And we’ve got touchscreen interactives so people can access some of that stuff.

Buzz Knight:

That’s great.

Paul Kingsbury:

So you could spend a couple hours in here easily.

Buzz Knight:

You can get lost in here in a great way.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. So shall we walk back through some more of country music history?

Buzz Knight:

Perfect.

Paul Kingsbury:

All right. So there’s big old Waylon on the wall from the 1970s. And now we start to hit… We’re back in the flow of country music history, and we’re featuring people like Glen Campbell and Ray Charles, who was recently inducted in the Country Music Hall of Fame. Jeannie C. Riley. People remember her from Harper Valley P.T.A.. And back in the corner, that’s a big old Johnny Cash suit.

Buzz Knight:

Love that.

Paul Kingsbury:

Roger Miller, in two years, won 11 Grammys. You probably know about this.

Buzz Knight:

Sure.

Paul Kingsbury:

There are the 11 Grammys he won in two years. Nobody’s ever won that many Grammys in two years, but Roger Miller did.

Buzz Knight:

He was a big star.

Paul Kingsbury:

John Hartford.

Buzz Knight:

You talk about unsung. This guy was… Didn’t he come out of the Glen Campbell sort of camp?

Paul Kingsbury:

He was. He was on The Glen Campbell Show and was part of their team of comedy writers along with Steve Martin. He says… Or he said. He’s passed away. John said he didn’t actually contribute all that many ideas, but he was part of the writing staff. And also, when the show would open up, the guy playing the banjo on The Glen Campbell Goodtime Hour, that was John Hartford.

Buzz Knight:

I love it.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, so he’s featured here, and he was a great songwriter and artist. Wrote Gentle on My Mind, which was the first big hit for Glen Campbell.

Buzz Knight:

And that group of musicians, I mean, they were big stars in that era, right? Because of TV.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, TV did launch a lot of country stars. I mean, over here, you see some Dolly Parton, Tanya Tucker, Tammy Wynette.

Buzz Knight:

Let’s talk about Dolly for a second.

Paul Kingsbury:

Sure.

Buzz Knight:

Is she one of the most amazing individuals ever?

Paul Kingsbury:

She is so brilliant. She’s done so much. There are people who kind of know of her as a personality, who don’t realize what an incredible songwriter Dolly Parton is.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

I mean, people who really know country music know that, but there are many people who still don’t know that Dolly Parton wrote I Will Always Love You. Yeah.

Buzz Knight:

She’s a force of nature.

Paul Kingsbury:

She is.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. And she does great good with her philanthropy. She gave money to COVID research at Vanderbilt Medical Center here in Nashville. I think it was more than a million dollars. And she is really a wonderful person and has been a good friend to the Country Music Hall of Fame over the years.

Buzz Knight:

So talk about the artists and how they support the Country Music Hall of Fame. They really… I mean, they give financially, right?

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, so I would say the main way that they support us financially is periodically, artists will have a fundraising concert for us in Nashville or in New York or LA, and we’ve also recently done this in Dallas. We call it All for the Hall. And artists like Vince Gill and Keith Urban kind of kicked off this whole thing of, “We’re going to donate our time. We’re going to do a multi-artist concert,” and the proceeds will go to the Country Music Hall of Fame.

So they’ve been doing that for us for several years. And it really is an easier way for them to go, because all of these artists give so much to so many charities. This way, it’s not like they’re writing a check for the Hall of Fame and somebody says, “Well, you’re writing a check for the Hall of Fame. Why can’t you write a check for me?” They’re donating their time. If people want to buy those tickets, and they have. They’ve sold out consistently. That’s how they raise money for us.

Buzz Knight:

Got it.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, you’ve heard of folks like these, Freddy Fender, Kenny Rogers, Dottie West.

Buzz Knight:

Paul, can we look at this Nashville Skyline here?

Paul Kingsbury:

Absolutely.

Buzz Knight:

All right. This is a near and dear period for me, certainly. So this guy. I think the-

Paul Kingsbury:

You’ve heard of this guy, huh?

Buzz Knight:

I think Bob Dylan is somebody that we’ve heard of. Well, I was here some years ago when the Hall had the special exhibit with Bob and Johnny Cash.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yes, yes.

Buzz Knight:

Which was wonderful.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, Dylan, Cash, and the Nashville Cats.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yes, it was wonderful.

Buzz Knight:

Which was really cool.

Paul Kingsbury:

I’m glad you liked that.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

I’m glad you liked that. But I don’t know if I even showed you in our country rock exhibit, Buzz, but you see that photo there of Chris Hillman, Chris Ethridge, Gram Parsons, and Sneaky Pete Kleinow from The Flying Burrito brothers. We have three of those four costumes on display in that exhibit over there.

Buzz Knight:

So when Bob came down here, he instantly just seemed to just be comfortable. He was welcomed in and-

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, well, if you saw that exhibit and you kind of read through it, so his producer at the time, Bob Johnston-

Buzz Knight:

Is it rolling, Bob? Remember?

Paul Kingsbury:

Exactly.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Bob convinced Bob Dylan to give Nashville a try after Bob Dylan met Charlie McCoy, a member of the Country Music Hall of Fame. And Charlie played some things for Bob up in New York and played on a session for him, and Bob said, “That’s pretty good.” Bob Johnston said, “There are bunches of guys who pick like that in Nashville. Let’s take you down there.” So this first big album that he recorded in Nashville is Blonde on Blonde in ’66. Huge hit album, right?

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Huge hit album.

Buzz Knight:

Quintessential, I would say.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, Bob was easily convinced that these guys know what they’re doing.

Buzz Knight:

Am I mistaken? Did he have some collaboration during that period with Charlie Daniels as part of a thing?

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, Charlie Daniels played on a couple of those Bob Dylan albums. Yeah.

Buzz Knight:

Wow.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, and in fact, we could go right back around the corner and it will show you a Telecaster guitar that Charlie Daniels played on Bob Dylan’s sessions. It’s right here.

Buzz Knight:

There it is. Okay. Look at that. Yeah. Wow.

Paul Kingsbury:

He played this on Dylan’s Nashville Skyline and Self Portrait.

Buzz Knight:

Oh my god.

Paul Kingsbury:

Charlie Daniels’ guitar.

Buzz Knight:

People, I think, forget about his accomplished playing, really.

Paul Kingsbury:

He was a great guitar player, great Fiddler. Great entertainer. All-around entertainer.

Buzz Knight:

Definitely. Okay, well, we’ve got a guy we’re looking at who, my God, what an incredible force he has become. Let’s talk about him.

Paul Kingsbury:

Right. So we are stepping right here into our major exhibit on Chris Stapleton, who since he broke out big in 2015, has been a major force in country and rock music for sure. I mean, there’s so many rock fans who love Chris Stapleton because he brings a real grit and fire to what he does.

Buzz Knight:

He’s amazing. I was fortunate, when the Country Radio Seminar has the Universal Music Group event at the Ryman, to see Chris there. And I guess I would describe it as jaw-dropping.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. I mean, in so many ways. I mean, what a voice, what a great guitar player. I mean, the interesting thing is, and as people go through this exhibit and look into it and read about it, they’ll see that Chris, for many years, for more than 10 years, he was known mainly as a songwriter in Nashville. And he wrote big hits for people like Josh Turner and Thomas Rhett. I mean, and Darius Rucker. He wrote lots and lots of hits. But lots of people also said, “He’s such a great performer, surely there’s a market for him as an artist.” And eventually, when he recorded his album, Traveller, and it came out in 2015, that was the big turning point for him, that he finally captured the sound that was in his head.

Buzz Knight:

He’s an amazing performer, my God.

Paul Kingsbury:

So you can see this is a very detailed exhibit on Chris Stapleton, and he and his team were wonderful in really emptying out the closets. Oh my goodness. We’ve got guitars throughout his whole life, costumes, other instruments, amps, song manuscripts, awards. And as we do with all our exhibits, we tell sort of the story of how he got to be who he is.

Buzz Knight:

Do you get a sense with an artist like Chris Stapleton, that, I mean, we’re really just seeing the beginning of what he’s yet to accomplish?

Paul Kingsbury:

With him, I think there’s a lot he could accomplish. Yeah. I mean, he’s been doing various kind of guest appearances on other artists, on an R&B and rock artists’ albums. Yeah, he could take this in so many directions. And he kind of pulls so many people together across the boundaries of music, because he crosses the boundaries.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah. Love him.

Paul Kingsbury:

So here’s some folks I know you’ll know about. You’ve seen them on stage, you’ve heard the records. Mary Chapin Carpenter, Pam Tillis, Trisha Yearwood, Patty Loveless, Alan Jackson down there in the exhibit. And I know you recognize that costume, Buzz.

Buzz Knight:

Oh boy, that is Shania.

Paul Kingsbury:

Shania in her leopard print outfit with bare belly. That’s what she did.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Garth Brooks, Vince Gill.

Buzz Knight:

So what do you make of where Vince and Garth are today in their careers?

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, I mean, neither of them has to do it anymore in that they’ve kind of established themselves as amazing artists. They’ve both recorded more than a dozen albums that are great and have done well. I’ll say that they’re both still at the peak of their game.

We had a couple weeks ago, an amazing kickoff concert for the LA Country-Rock Exhibit, and Vince sang. Oh my gosh, he’s singing better than he sang 20 years ago. Everybody was saying it. And I was fortunate enough to attend a Garth Brooks concert in Las Vegas this summer in the domed stadium that the Raiders play in. Oh my gosh. Garth is older than 60, and the last time I had seen a full concert of him live was in the ’90s. He has more energy now than he had in the 1990s. He did the full more than two hour show. Trisha came on and sang with him. He did an acoustic set.

So I guess to answer your question, these guys can do what they want to do. They still have it. They still got it. They still got a following. And I think it’s really… They’re not doing it for the money, they’re doing it for the love of the music, right?

Buzz Knight:

Well, I was going to get to that. So yeah, that’s really permeates the entire sort of country scene, really. Of course it’s a commitment to the music and it’s a living, but they’re driven by the love of the performance, the love of the music.

Paul Kingsbury:

I think a lot of them are.

Buzz Knight:

I really believe that.

Paul Kingsbury:

I’ll give you a case in point. So the Grand Ole Opry is still going. Longest running radio show in the United States since 1925. Many, many of these stars we’re talking about are members of the Grand Ole Opry and appear from time to time. They don’t get paid the normal thousands of dollars. When they appear on the Opry, they get paid union scale. They get paid a very small amount. They do it for the love of the history, the love of the tradition. When you see Vince appear there, Garth, Alan Jackson, Patty Loveless, all of these people, it’s because they love the music.

Buzz Knight:

I saw Garth a couple years back when CRS had a bunch of radio folks in the… I can’t remember the bar, but the little bar performance on Broadway, and oh my goodness, what an event. Now, back to Vince, do you think him now being an Eagle, do you think that makes him even a stronger performer just by being around other people maybe he admires?

Paul Kingsbury:

I don’t know if it makes him stronger. He seems like the kind of guy who’s always learning and always wanting to build. I mean, it’s like he hasn’t stopped in his progress. My guess… Okay, I’m prejudiced, but I think Vince is probably teaching those guys a few things.

Buzz Knight:

Okay, there you go. I love that. And they’d be willing.

Paul Kingsbury:

I think they would be willing.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. Well, this whole section here is on… Bringing us into the 2000s, you’ve got Brad Paisley, and Big & Rich, and Toby Keith, and Jamey Johnson featured over here, and Rascal Flatts, and Darius Rucker is in the case over there with a video of him doing Wagon Wheel. This is the outfit that Darius Rucker wore when he did Wagon Wheel. Eric Church.

Now, I don’t know if you have time for this, Buzz, but we have a whole exhibit that we change out annually every March. It’s called American Currents, and it’s our view back at the previous year. So I don’t know, do you have time to walk through American Currents?

Buzz Knight:

Yeah, let’s take a walk through.

Paul Kingsbury:

So this is our take on significant things that happened in country music in 2021. So we opened this in March 2022. And you can see we like to do this part of the exhibit, which is we call Unbroken Circle. The idea is to show influences back and forth. Lee Ann Womack influencing Lainey Wilson. Keith Urban influencing Breland. They’ve worked together. Brittney Spencer and Reba McEntire, Reba being a big influence on Brittney. Both really big, great singers.

Buzz Knight:

It’s critical because this is how it’s always been in Nashville, the influence part.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, yeah. And we do this video thing where we kind of recap highlights from the year. This whole section is we show people what were the biggest selling albums of the year, who sold the most concert tickets, who had the biggest singles. So that’s what this is all about.

And then you’ll see a number of exhibit cases here, just various folks who had big years in 2021. Taylor Swift, of course, re-released some of her early albums in brand new Taylor’s versions, which, for me, hit all over again.

Buzz Knight:

Talk about a force of nature.

Paul Kingsbury:

She absolutely is. Brothers Osborne.

Buzz Knight:

Love the Brothers Osborne. Love them.

Paul Kingsbury:

And one thing we do in American Currents is we have a big tent. So an artist like Allison Russell, who I think a lot of people would say is more Americana than strict mainstream country, we include them. These guys, John Hiatt and Jerry Douglas, big tent. But they recorded in RCA Studio B.

Buzz Knight:

They did.

Paul Kingsbury:

Which is one of the properties that we run and allow people to visit, this famous recording studio that Chet Atkins ran for many years.

Buzz Knight:

Big fan of those guys.

Paul Kingsbury:

Alison Krauss featured.

Buzz Knight:

She’s out with Robert Plant these days, right?

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, they’re amazing together.

Buzz Knight:

Let’s talk about this gentleman. What an amazing story. Jimmie Allen.

Paul Kingsbury:

Jimmie Allen was living out of his car at one point, trying to pull it together, and what a great talent Jimmie Allen is. He’s won now significant awards in country music. The ACM’s New Male Artist of the Year, CMA’s New Artist of the Year. Yeah, he’s really breaking out, I think.

Buzz Knight:

I love it.

Paul Kingsbury:

Old Dominion.

Buzz Knight:

Yeah.

Paul Kingsbury:

Consistently winning CMA and ACM awards. Billy Strings, Chris Stapleton. Of course we just passed his exhibit, but we featured him here before we opened the other. Can’t deny Luke Combs. What a major force he’s become in country music.

Buzz Knight:

This is amazing. So Paul, last question. How lucky every day do you feel when you wake up with the job that you have?

Paul Kingsbury:

I get to have fun every day. It’s a dream job. It’s a dream job. The people are great, the artists are great. They are generally a dream to work with. And what a gas it is to walk into the museum as we are walking today and see so many people just their faces almost pressed up against the glass like, “I need to know more about this artist who means so much to me.” I love seeing that.

Buzz Knight:

Well, this is great.

Paul Kingsbury:

I love seeing that. Now, I have to take you into the Hall of Fame itself, right?

Buzz Knight:

Yes.

Paul Kingsbury:

We have to walk into that. So I’ve worked in both the old original Country Music Hall of Fame building that opened in 1967 on Music Row and closed in 2001, and I work in this new building, which we opened in 2001. And I can tell you the old Hall of Fame hallowed area was not as impressive as what we’re about to walk into now. And maybe rather than me brag on what our Hall of Fame Rotunda looks like, maybe you, Buzz, could tell the listeners what you feel as you walk into it, okay?

Buzz Knight:

You got it. Yeah. The hallowed halls.

Paul Kingsbury:

So what do you feel and what do you see when you walk in here?

Buzz Knight:

Well, first of all, I’m struck by the great line of Will the Circle Be Unbroken, which is-

Paul Kingsbury:

Famous Carter Family song.

Buzz Knight:

… one of the most amazing songs ever. But then, of course… I mean, it feels really, I dare say, almost like church.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. Well, that’s kind of the feel we were going for. You’ve got natural light pouring in, in this huge circular room. And we’ve got the plaques of all of the 149 Country Music Hall of Fame members on the wall. But you’ll notice they’re not organized in alphabetical or chronological order. They’re organized randomly because that’s our way of saying everyone who becomes a member of the Country Music Hall of Fame is equal with everyone else. They’re all equally important. They’re all Country Music Hall of Famers.

The three newest members of the Country Music Hall of Fame are on the wall back here close to this famous mural, The Sources of Country Music, painted by Thomas Hart Benton in 1975. So the three newest members of the Hall of Fame are record executive Joe Galante, the late Keith Whitley, and the killer Jerry Lee Lewis.

Buzz Knight:

Look at that.

Paul Kingsbury:

Isn’t that fantastic? The artist captured him playing his piano-

Buzz Knight:

That’s cool.

Paul Kingsbury:

… which he plays like no one else.

Buzz Knight:

Wow. Tremendous. Yeah, there’s a sense of spirit here, there’s a sense of calm, certainly, but respect for everything that’s been around us.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah. I’m glad to hear you say that. That’s what we’re trying to convey here is these are the greats of country music. We want to honor them. We want people to feel like they commune with their spirit here.

Buzz Knight:

Conveyed.

Paul Kingsbury:

Yeah, good. Yeah.

Buzz Knight:

Conveyed.

Paul Kingsbury:

Good.

Buzz Knight:

Paul, I’m so grateful for taking a walk through the Country Music Hall of Fame. And with your vantage point in particular, it was very special. Thank you for allowing me to be part of it.

Paul Kingsbury:

Well, it was a blast, Buzz. I really enjoyed it.

Buzz Knight:

Thank you.

Speaker 4:

Takin’ A Walk with Buzz Knight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Buzz Knight is an established media executive with a long history of content creation and multi-platform distribution.

After a successful career as a Radio Executive, he formed Buzz Knight Media which focuses on strategic guidance and the development of new original content.